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I can see it now, different sliders for different sec status
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#21 - 2012-09-25 19:21:09 UTC
Fraxi Nilanth wrote:
Here's a thought: other people play the game differently then you, and their playstyles are hurt by a constant and massive influx of liquid isk into the market, thus depreciating the value of every other activity in the game. Explore? Highsec lvl 4s have better isk with lower risk. Wormholes? Highsec lvl 4s have equal isk with lower risk. Nullsec sanctums? They're about on par with lvl 4s and you need a bunch of ships and nullsec space to run them. The game is skewed by highsec missions. Why would anyone do anything else? Its safe, its easy, its assured. Will eve die because of that? No, but it will be less fun, and honestly, there would probably be more player retention if 80% of new players didn't get sucked into the mission running for isk crowd right off the bat.



Guess what, I have lived in wh's for months at a time. I have lived in null sec with FCON.
To equate the payouts of null and wh's with high sec is a complete lie.

Null sec Sanctum payouts are enormous compared to L4 missionsm and that is BEFORE the possibility of escalations.

Just because you post a lie does not make it true.
Fraxi Nilanth
Alexylva Paradox
#22 - 2012-09-25 19:24:16 UTC
But the alternative needs to suck more. There's never a reason to take a riskier chance if the zero risk activity is just as profitable.

Fraxi Nilanth: Albino Spacejanitor Extraordinaire
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#23 - 2012-09-25 19:26:30 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
This is my last active account, and if I quit, who really cares about one more account. (I let
What I do care about is how much time I have invested in this game, and how I see it is an utter waste now.

What I do care about is how much this will affect legions of players who NEED high sec missions to keep playing the game, and how many of them use drones. I have enough liquid ISK to buy 3 years of plexes, and if I liquidate my BPO's, enough to pay for plexes for a long, long time. But for the newer players, this is a huge, huge hit.

"if I cant AFK l4s they might as well not exist

why yes i have billions in liquid isk and BPOs from grinding L4s that i just sit on

don't listen to the nullsec zealots about l4s needing adjustments though"


Like right now, where I am running an epic arc mission on one screen, managing the aggo of the spawns, making sure the drones kill in the right order, and typing a response to your ridiculous comment on the other.

Yeah, that is running missions afk.

Oh, and another thing. I made the vast, vast majority of that ISK when I was in NULL sec, in FCON.


Oh quit crying.

2 obvious solutions jump right out to solve your troubles.

1) Stay near your drones so you can pull them if they draw aggro, or remote rep them.

2) Use sentry drones.

The AI are ridiculously easy to defeat, no matter if you're in missions, nullsec, plexes, wormholes or wherever. If you can't figure them out and adapt, then you're really in the wrong game. Eve is for thinking people.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Imports Plus
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-09-25 19:27:51 UTC
Level 4 missions need to be WH sleeper level difficulty, with neuting towers are far more scrams. Level 4 missions are waay too easy for the reward they give. Balance please.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#25 - 2012-09-25 19:29:35 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
This is my last active account, and if I quit, who really cares about one more account. (I let
What I do care about is how much time I have invested in this game, and how I see it is an utter waste now.

What I do care about is how much this will affect legions of players who NEED high sec missions to keep playing the game, and how many of them use drones. I have enough liquid ISK to buy 3 years of plexes, and if I liquidate my BPO's, enough to pay for plexes for a long, long time. But for the newer players, this is a huge, huge hit.

"if I cant AFK l4s they might as well not exist

why yes i have billions in liquid isk and BPOs from grinding L4s that i just sit on

don't listen to the nullsec zealots about l4s needing adjustments though"


Like right now, where I am running an epic arc mission on one screen, managing the aggo of the spawns, making sure the drones kill in the right order, and typing a response to your ridiculous comment on the other.

Yeah, that is running missions afk.

Oh, and another thing. I made the vast, vast majority of that ISK when I was in NULL sec, in FCON.


Oh quit crying.

2 obvious solutions jump right out to solve your troubles.

1) Stay near your drones so you can pull them if they draw aggro, or remote rep them.

2) Use sentry drones.

The AI are ridiculously easy to defeat, no matter if you're in missions, nullsec, plexes, wormholes or wherever. If you can't figure them out and adapt, then you're really in the wrong game. Eve is for thinking people.



So how about we nerf large auto-cannon range in high sec so the mach's have to be within 10 km of their targets. All the mach's have to do is fit an a/b to their ships and get close to their targets. It is all about adapting, right?
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-09-25 19:37:22 UTC
Fraxi Nilanth wrote:
But the alternative needs to suck more.


Only if you're too dim to make the alternative you want people to choose better and more interesting.
Fraxi Nilanth
Alexylva Paradox
#27 - 2012-09-25 19:42:56 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Fraxi Nilanth wrote:
But the alternative needs to suck more.


Only if you're too dim to make the alternative you want people to choose better and more interesting.



Well, lets consider that then? Shall we?

income per day for highsec missioning: 40-130 million isk (average)
income per day of a class one wormhole (which I'll remind all of you is nullsec): 60 million isk (it goes upwards in other WHs from there)
Income per day of an average nullsec ratter: 100-200 million isk (in well defended space)

So missions produce equal income to high risk group activities, right, well, clearly the solution is to buff those activities right? Why? Whats wrong with the amount of isk they make on those? Everything seems to be balanced in regards to risk except for mission running in highsec.

Fraxi Nilanth: Albino Spacejanitor Extraordinaire
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#28 - 2012-09-25 19:44:11 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

So how about we nerf large auto-cannon range in high sec so the mach's have to be within 10 km of their targets. All the mach's have to do is fit an a/b to their ships and get close to their targets. It is all about adapting, right?


Sure, it sounds like an arbitrary nerf just to make you happy, but that's what this whole thread is about anyway isn't it? Making you happy?

What does your paranoia have to do with highsec anyway? They said these AI changes will apply to everything everywhere.

And yes, it is all about adapting - not whining about your pet easy-mode gameplay getting changed.



FWIW, I use drones all the time and the Ishtar is one of my favorite ships - I expect things to change, and I expect to adapt. Try it sometime.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Fraxi Nilanth
Alexylva Paradox
#29 - 2012-09-25 19:46:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Fraxi Nilanth
meh. This thread's boring.

Fraxi Nilanth: Albino Spacejanitor Extraordinaire
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-09-25 19:50:44 UTC
Fraxi Nilanth wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
Fraxi Nilanth wrote:
But the alternative needs to suck more.


Only if you're too dim to make the alternative you want people to choose better and more interesting.



Well, lets consider that then? Shall we?

income per day for highsec missioning: 40-130 million isk (average)
income per day of a class one wormhole (which I'll remind all of you is nullsec): 60 million isk (it goes upwards in other WHs from there)
Income per day of an average nullsec ratter: 100-200 million isk (in well defended space)

So missions produce equal income to high risk group activities, right, well, clearly the solution is to buff those activities right? Why? Whats wrong with the amount of isk they make on those? Everything seems to be balanced in regards to risk except for mission running in highsec.


If all you're interested in is the iskies, you're foolish to complain that you're not doing it right.
It adds an air of petulance to the complaint that other people make isk more easily than you do. And that's saying something.

If you're after something more (as I suspect), you've picked a poor standard for comparison.
Robert De'Arneth
#31 - 2012-09-25 19:50:45 UTC
Fraxi Nilanth wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
Fraxi Nilanth wrote:
But the alternative needs to suck more.


Only if you're too dim to make the alternative you want people to choose better and more interesting.



Well, lets consider that then? Shall we?

income per day for highsec missioning: 40-130 million isk (average)
income per day of a class one wormhole (which I'll remind all of you is nullsec): 60 million isk (it goes upwards in other WHs from there)
Income per day of an average nullsec ratter: 100-200 million isk (in well defended space)

So missions produce equal income to high risk group activities, right, well, clearly the solution is to buff those activities right? Why? Whats wrong with the amount of isk they make on those? Everything seems to be balanced in regards to risk except for mission running in highsec.



Could you please provide the CCP data link to back this up?

I'm a nerd, you can check my stats!! Skilling Int/Mem at 45 sp per minute is how I mack!     I'm like a lapdog, all bark no bite. 
Ukonius
Freeport Eleven
#32 - 2012-09-25 19:59:09 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Paul Oliver wrote:
Honestly I'm surprised their hasn't been whining yet that this will somehow keep people in highsec and that highsec NPCs should be made easier so people get bored and leave highsec sooner.


If this is about moving people to null, I'm again astounded that with all CCP's creative talent they can't come up with a way to actually make null more interesting and are still mired in the "make the alternative suck more" paradigm.



This, this and this. It's not about adding to null-sec, it has become all about taking away from high-sec. Too much talent at CCP for this lazy mans approach. Sad
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-09-25 20:01:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Like right now, where I am running an epic arc mission on one screen, managing the aggo of the spawns, making sure the drones kill in the right order, and typing a response to your ridiculous comment on the other.

Yeah, that is running missions afk.

Oh, and another thing. I made the vast, vast majority of that ISK when I was in NULL sec, in FCON.

As you previously posted, you're doing your first epic arc ever.
But, also as you've previously posted, you've already ground enough isk to 'buy PLEX for years of game time' and own a BPO collection.
Why are you pretending that what you're doing now is any way representative of your game experience?
For that matter, you've never spent your ISK from when you were in FCON for 8 months over two years ago?
You'd have more credibility if you were simply lying at this point.
Nex Parietis
Interstellar Booty Hunters
#34 - 2012-09-25 20:11:51 UTC
Posting as a drone boat operator who is very very excited for the AI changes. Bring on the exploding drones.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#35 - 2012-09-25 20:20:04 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
War Kitten wrote:

Are you really Glen Beck in disguise?

All your posts have this rumor-mongering fear-laced taint to them, but have just enough of a shred of truth somewhere at the root that you seem to pass the ISD rumor filter.


lol here comes the NULL SEC brigade for the NERFing of HI SEC propaganda machine in full force...
TROLL ON Roll
/me grabs popcorn
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-09-25 20:24:42 UTC
The above post was brought to you by the Caps Lock Tourette's Awareness Society
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#37 - 2012-09-25 20:57:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Dinsdale Pirannha
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Like right now, where I am running an epic arc mission on one screen, managing the aggo of the spawns, making sure the drones kill in the right order, and typing a response to your ridiculous comment on the other.

Yeah, that is running missions afk.

Oh, and another thing. I made the vast, vast majority of that ISK when I was in NULL sec, in FCON.

As you previously posted, you're doing your first epic arc ever.
But, also as you've previously posted, you've already ground enough isk to 'buy PLEX for years of game time' and own a BPO collection.
Why are you pretending that what you're doing now is any way representative of your game experience?
For that matter, you've never spent your ISK from when you were in FCON for 8 months over two years ago?
You'd have more credibility if you were simply lying at this point.


Because I have reduced myself to one account, I need to make less than 20M / day to maintain an account.
So no, I don't touch the store of wealth I accrued when in null sec.
Ludi Burek
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#38 - 2012-09-26 00:48:34 UTC
Oh come on now, you're crying about missions. Missions? Damn.

I don't see any whine threads by 0.0 explorers that currently use an expensive tank ship plus cheap dpser having to upgrade to all ships being able to tank the complex. Why? Because they will just do it, that's why.

Not confirming hate against high sec players, but lets pretend it's true. If it was true what exactly is it about high sec missioners and other high seccers to love? Or anything even to push the opinion at least towards neutral? All you do is cry about the simplest things being too hard.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#39 - 2012-09-26 01:15:28 UTC
Ludi Burek wrote:
Oh come on now, you're crying about missions. Missions? Damn.

I don't see any whine threads by 0.0 explorers that currently use an expensive tank ship plus cheap dpser having to upgrade to all ships being able to tank the complex. Why? Because they will just do it, that's why.

Not confirming hate against high sec players, but lets pretend it's true. If it was true what exactly is it about high sec missioners and other high seccers to love? Or anything even to push the opinion at least towards neutral? All you do is cry about the simplest things being too hard.


Really, no complaining by the 10/10 plexers? Really?
Guess you have not been paying too much attention to the 30 some odd page dev blog.

And, I do completely agree with the null sec people complaining about it.
They should. This stupid idea will impact them, hard.
The dev has already stated that "hmmmm...hadn't looked into the impact of the 10/10's", and was going to.

As I first stated, the holy trinity of ships doing high end plexes will have to change radically. And if logi's are going to get targeted with webs and a huge alpha, oh man. If a logi can be alphaed, then some high end plexes will almost impossible to do. The only way to overcome that would be bringing in a squad doing carrier type killing alpha, which of course is utterly impractical.

So given how much the null sec crowd is coddled, the natural extension is to make it easier on the null sec crowd, using different sliders. Because we all know that high sec won't get the same treatment.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#40 - 2012-09-26 01:17:47 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
So the latest dev to declare their hatred for high sec talks about how he/she is introducing a slider to dictate the aggro switching decisions by the AI.

How long will it be before we hear about how the separate sliders will be introduced, set differently for low sec, null sec, and high sec?
In other words, it will be next to nothing for null sec, and huge for high sec?

Or will we not hear anything about it at all, and it is simply and quietly introduced as a "feature"?


Are you really Glen Beck in disguise?

All your posts have this rumor-mongering fear-laced taint to them, but have just enough of a shred of truth somewhere at the root that you seem to pass the ISD rumor filter.


1. Glenn Beck is some kind of clown who was so far off base that even fox dumped him.
2. If it is rumour-mongering, the ISD will indeed step in. Of course, if there is a shred of truth, then it is not rumour-mongering, and implementing multiple sliders catering to the null sec crowd is fairly easy to do, as the mechanics for a slider is the crux of this new AI.
3. Fox Four made her/his hatred of high sec well-known when he/she posted that image in the dev blog gloating about this will murder drone boat operators, and how "everyone" wants more PvP in high sec.


Sliders means they will be able to adjust it to create more even balance in the game after seeing what impact it has on the game, without having to completely recode it. Just fyi.
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