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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Proposal - ECM change
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Eckyy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-09-22 06:08:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Eckyy
Throwing out an idea - how about changing ECM away from breaking a target's lock, to either:

(A) shut down the target's weapons, effectively preventing the jammed ship from doing any damage but allowing it to keep tackle or other targeted midslot effects (remote sebos, etc.), or...

(B) shut down targeted non-damage effects suck as warp disruptors, webs, remote sensor boosters, tracking disruptors, allowing the jammer to escape but not letting it avoid damage?

Thoughts/feedback?

I'm leaning toward idea A as ECM remains a strong defensive module, but isn't an I-Win-Or-I-Escape anymore.
Nalelmir Mahyisti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-09-22 06:11:16 UTC
I'll just get it out of the way now.

"ECM is fine as is"
"Adapt or die"
"L2 ECCM noob"

and the various other multitudes of trolling you'll get for posting another "fix" to ECM.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-09-22 06:21:32 UTC
Nalelmir Mahyisti wrote:
I'll just get it out of the way now.

"ECM is fine as is"
"Adapt or die"
"L2 ECCM noob"

and the various other multitudes of trolling you'll get for posting another "fix" to ECM.

CCP already stated they WILL be changing ECM mechanics, the only question is how, the OP is an interisting idea.
i think it will be one of the following two things:
For each successful cycle of the ECM module one currently locked target will be delocked.
Each ECM jammer will reduce the number of active targets the ship can have (calcuated from the Maximum number of targets the ship has, not the remaining mumber of targets)

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
NiGhTTraX
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-09-22 13:04:26 UTC
Nalelmir Mahyisti wrote:
I'll just get it out of the way now.

"ECM is fine as is"
"Adapt or die"
"L2 ECCM noob"

and the various other multitudes of trolling you'll get for posting another "fix" to ECM.


I think I'm gonna go with "L2 ECCM noob". Did I win?

If you're gonna post here thinking your idea is the greatest thing since bacon and that it will save EVE and possibly all humankind with it, you're gonna have a bad time.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-09-22 17:02:16 UTC
The problem with ECM currently is the chance-based "Russian roulette" of jam mechanics. Jam cycle is OMG I pwnz him, and NO Jam cycle is OMG he pwnz me. How about a system which leaves the percentage chance of jam missing, which no other eWar uses anyway., and keeps ECM from effectively being used by a non-ECM ship. I suggest a system which requires the total jam points on a target to exceed the ship sensor strength for permajam, and while this may take a ship out of the battle, his buddies are still in the battle and can counter-ecm/explode the offending ECM ships.

Then there are powerful ECM drones which any non-ECM boat can use effectively. How about reducing ECM drone jam strength and then bonusing ECM boat bonuses to ECM drones?

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Eckyy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-09-23 04:41:06 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
The problem with ECM currently is the chance-based "Russian roulette" of jam mechanics. Jam cycle is OMG I pwnz him, and NO Jam cycle is OMG he pwnz me. How about a system which leaves the percentage chance of jam missing, which no other eWar uses anyway., and keeps ECM from effectively being used by a non-ECM ship. I suggest a system which requires the total jam points on a target to exceed the ship sensor strength for permajam, and while this may take a ship out of the battle, his buddies are still in the battle and can counter-ecm/explode the offending ECM ships.

Then there are powerful ECM drones which any non-ECM boat can use effectively. How about reducing ECM drone jam strength and then bonusing ECM boat bonuses to ECM drones?


I like the removal of the chance-basedness of ECM. If ECM only gives a partial jam to a ship (such as just to its tank or cap recharge or tackle) but leaves its guns running, or vice versa, I see no need to leave ECM as chance-based.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-09-23 14:06:15 UTC
Eckyy wrote:
Andy Landen wrote:
The problem with ECM currently is the chance-based "Russian roulette" of jam mechanics. Jam cycle is OMG I pwnz him, and NO Jam cycle is OMG he pwnz me. How about a system which leaves the percentage chance of jam missing, which no other eWar uses anyway., and keeps ECM from effectively being used by a non-ECM ship. I suggest a system which requires the total jam points on a target to exceed the ship sensor strength for permajam, and while this may take a ship out of the battle, his buddies are still in the battle and can counter-ecm/explode the offending ECM ships.

Then there are powerful ECM drones which any non-ECM boat can use effectively. How about reducing ECM drone jam strength and then bonusing ECM boat bonuses to ECM drones?


I like the removal of the chance-basedness of ECM. If ECM only gives a partial jam to a ship (such as just to its tank or cap recharge or tackle) but leaves its guns running, or vice versa, I see no need to leave ECM as chance-based.


Agreed, but I am not saying that there should be partial jams. Interesting idea though. 50% to jam medium slots. 100% for guns and logi. high slots, etc.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
LadyDream
Boobs Light Industries
#8 - 2012-09-24 13:01:30 UTC
I have silly but maybe worth testing/discuss solution:

"jammed target is damage immune"

yes, that simple and easy
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-09-24 14:28:12 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
The problem with ECM currently is the chance-based "Russian roulette" of jam mechanics. Jam cycle is OMG I pwnz him, and NO Jam cycle is OMG he pwnz me. How about a system which leaves the percentage chance of jam missing, which no other eWar uses anyway., and keeps ECM from effectively being used by a non-ECM ship. I suggest a system which requires the total jam points on a target to exceed the ship sensor strength for permajam, and while this may take a ship out of the battle, his buddies are still in the battle and can counter-ecm/explode the offending ECM ships.

It used to work like this. And everyone hated it.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-09-24 16:07:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy Landen
Astroniomix wrote:
Andy Landen wrote:
The problem with ECM currently is the chance-based "Russian roulette" of jam mechanics. Jam cycle is OMG I pwnz him, and NO Jam cycle is OMG he pwnz me. How about a system which leaves the percentage chance of jam missing, which no other eWar uses anyway., and keeps ECM from effectively being used by a non-ECM ship. I suggest a system which requires the total jam points on a target to exceed the ship sensor strength for permajam, and while this may take a ship out of the battle, his buddies are still in the battle and can counter-ecm/explode the offending ECM ships.

It used to work like this. And everyone hated it.

It used to be that non-ECM ships filled their medium slots with jammers because they were that effective on non-ECM ships. It still is that non-ECM ships fit ECM drones for great effect even by light ECM-300 drones on non-ECM ships. That was and is the real problem. Once ECM is mostly fielded by ECM ships, we know that the base strength is good. When ECM ships field ECM commonly, we know the bonus is good. When ECCM boosts sensor strength enough, then ECM ships will not dominate the battlefield.

My suggestions:
We should combine ECCM with sensor booster for a single module which boosts scan res, target range, and sensor strength. This allows a good ECM counter without feeling like a slot is wasted if there is no ECM on the field. Allow a sensor strength script to focus the module on only sensor strength.
We would combine Remote Sensor Damp with ECM into one module which does both or just one with a script and the eWar ships bonusing their respective eWar on the module.
We should combine all jam types to simplify ECM.

The new module will be called
Remote Sensor Dampener base stats: -3 remote sensor strength (all types/races) -15% remote target range -15% remote target scan res 10s duration 36 GJ activation 30 Optimal 60 Falloff 42 CPU 1 PG
Each script multiplies their stat by x2 and the others by x0.
Sensor Booster: +30% target range +30% scan res +100% sensor strength (all types/races). Again, each script multiplies their stat by x2 and the others by x0.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Mike AntHunt
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#11 - 2012-09-24 16:35:54 UTC
How about reducing the cycle time of the jammers? That's my biggest problem. When I'm running ECCM, I get jammed less, but when I do it takes 16 seconds + lock time to re-lock a target. The other EW modules have a cycle time of 10 seconds, so if they reduced the jammers cycle time to 10 seconds, I would be happy. The strength is a bit strong on ships with bonuses to it, but not by much.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#12 - 2012-09-24 17:43:15 UTC
Bring more ships.

Shoot the jamming ship. It explodes, and jamming stops.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Penelope Raven
#13 - 2012-09-24 20:37:06 UTC
Mike AntHunt wrote:
How about reducing the cycle time of the jammers? That's my biggest problem. When I'm running ECCM, I get jammed less, but when I do it takes 16 seconds + lock time to re-lock a target. The other EW modules have a cycle time of 10 seconds, so if they reduced the jammers cycle time to 10 seconds, I would be happy. The strength is a bit strong on ships with bonuses to it, but not by much.

This always seemed to make the most sense to me. People come to the forums and complain they were jammed for the whole combat but realistically how many times did they get jammed, 2 or 3? Halving the time would make ECM seem less severe.

Adding a skill that would add 5% to the ECCM strength per level would help those that expect to meet ECM. More skills are always good.