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Non-Caldari Missile Hulls?
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John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#1 - 2012-09-23 15:39:35 UTC
As title, are any non-Caldari hulls any good for missile boats? At all Class levels.

I'm told the Vengeance can be decent. Any others?

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#2 - 2012-09-23 16:47:09 UTC
Sacrilege is very good at what it does, basically just a bigger version of the Vengeance. Typhoon can use missiles, which gives it a shedload of DPS with torps, assuming you can apply that is another issue. Stealth Bombers can be very fun/useful in the right places. Speaking of frigates, the ship changes should also be giving you some more options come winter. I think the Breacher is getting a bonus to rockets as well as shield boosting, so that's a very interesting combo. Finally, I think the new Bellicose is bonused for some form of missile warfare, along with a nice TP bonus, should be interesting too.

I probably missed something, but hopefully others will fill in the blanks.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#3 - 2012-09-23 16:52:47 UTC
Thanks for that - will take a look at those hulls.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#4 - 2012-09-23 17:01:18 UTC
As Dibblerette said: the breacher will be buffed, so it will be a powerful missile brawler and the bellicose will be turned into a missile ship.

In addtion, Minmatar (and Caldari) will get new missile destroyers for the winter expansion. And in future expansions the cyclone might be turned into a missile ship and the Typhoon will get its split weapon layout replaced with a full missile layout.

So minmatar will end up with a full t1 missile lineup from frig to BS.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#5 - 2012-09-23 17:23:26 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
As Dibblerette said: the breacher will be buffed, so it will be a powerful missile brawler and the bellicose will be turned into a missile ship.

In addtion, Minmatar (and Caldari) will get new missile destroyers for the winter expansion. And in future expansions the cyclone might be turned into a missile ship and the Typhoon will get its split weapon layout replaced with a full missile layout.

So minmatar will end up with a full t1 missile lineup from frig to BS.


As long as the ships are full launcher setups then that's Kool & the Gang. I don't like mixed platform hulls.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-09-23 17:45:33 UTC
100mn Legion is as good of an example as any I guess. Def ain't caldari, def pawns.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-09-23 17:53:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Verity Sovereign
Quote:
At all Class levels

A number of these (T2s) have a specific role where their DPS, and thus launchers, don't really matter, but you could fit them for DPS and run missions/combat with them, I suppose.

Minmatar:
BS:
***(Fleet)Typhoon... 5 launcher slots, with ROF bonus so good missile hull ***
(Fleet)Tempest.... 4 launcher slots, no bonus - meh
Mael... 3 launchers slots, no bonus - meh

BC:
Claymore: 3 launchers, no bonus - meh
Sleipnir: 3 launchers, no bonus - meh
Hurricane: 3 launchers, no bonus - meh
Cyclone: 3 launchers, no bonus - meh

Cruisers:
Rapier: 1 launcher, no bonus - crap
*** Hugin: 3 launchers, ROF bonus - not bad ***
Broadsword: 3 launchers, no bonus - meh
Vagabond: 2 launchers, no bonus - pretty bad
Munin: 3 launchers, no bonus - meh, but given its quad bonused guns, you'd be insane to fit a 3rd launcher in place of another gun
(Fleet) stabber: (3)2 launchers, no bonus - meh
*** Scythe fleet: 3 launchers, ROF bonus - not bad ***
Scythe: 2 launchers, no bonus - pretty bad
Bellicose: 3 launchers, no bonus - meh
Rupture: 3 launchers, no bonus - meh

Destroyer:
Sabre: 2 launchers, no bonus - crap
Thrasher: 1 launcher, no bonus - crap

Frigates:
***Breacher: 3 launchers, omni damage bonus, pretty good***
Rifter: 2 launchers, no bonus - meh
Slasher: 1 launcher, no bonus - crap
Vigil: 1 launcher, no bonus - crap
Firetail: 1 launcher, no bonus - crap
Claw: 2 launchers, no bonus - meh
Stilleto: 1 launcher, no bonus - crap
Hyena: 2 launchers, no bonus - meh
Hound: 3 launchers, torp bonus - meh for anything but torps
Cheetah: 1 launcher, no bonus - crap
Wolf: 1 launcher, no bonus - crap
Jaguar: 1 launcher, no bonus - crap



Gallente:
BS:
Mega (Navy): 2 launchers, no bonus - crap
Hyperion: 1 launcher, no bonus - crap

-No BCs-

Cruisers:
***Lachesis: 3 launchers, rof bonus - ok ***
Arazu: 1 launcher, no bonus - crap
Celestis: 2 launchers, no bonus - crap

***Destroyers: Eris: 4 launchers, thermal damage bonus - meh***

Frigates:
Ares: 1 launcher, no bonus - crap
Nemesis: 3 launchers, only good for torps
Enyo: 1 launcher, no bonus - crap
Tristan: 2 launchers, no bonus - meh probably the closest you'll get to a gal missile frig, as the missiles are half its weapons


Amarr:
BS:
Apocalypse (navy): 2 launchers, no bonus - crap
Abaddon: 1 launcher, no bonus - crap

BC:
*** Damnation: 5 launchers, range bonus - ok ***
Prophecy: 1 launcher, no bonus - crap
Absolution: 1 launcher, no bonus - crap

Cruiser:
Curse: 4 launchers, no bonus - not bad, but there's alot better things you could do with the highs
***Sacrilege: 5 launchers, damage and ROF bonus- pretty good ***
Arbitrator: 1 launcher, no bonus - crap
Omen: 1 launcher, no bonus - crap

Destroyers:
*** Heretic: 6 launchers, damage, range, exp velocity bonus - pretty good ***

Frigates:
*** Malediction: 3 launchers, damage bonus - pretty good ***
Anathema: 2 launchers, damage bonus - meh
Purifier: 3 launchers, only good with torps
*** Vengeance: 4 launchers, damage bonus - pretty good ***
*** Inquisitor: 3 launchers, omni damage bonus - pretty good ***
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#8 - 2012-09-23 17:55:23 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
As title, are any non-Caldari hulls any good for missile boats? At all Class levels.


Ships with missile bonuses:

There's one missile frigate for each major faction.

Guristas faction ships (though, they're drone boats with a minor in missiles)

Typhoon (split-weapon, though)

Loki (with appropriate subsystem ... split-weapon, too).

Legion (with appropriate subsystem)

Vengeance

Sacrilege

Lachesis (Why do the "we don't do missiles" Gallente get a hull with missile bonuses, but the "we don't do drones" Caldari don't get a single hull with drone bonuses?)
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-09-23 18:00:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Verity Sovereign
Because lore says Rodan shipyards likes missiles...
Caldari seceeded from the Gal, so the Caldari tech should be a subset of the Gal tech?
It does seem odd, that given the "common history" of the Cal and Gal, that they are so different except when it comes to weapon turrets. At least many Gal ships have the slot layout to shield tank - but then they go and slap an armor repair bonus on those hulls (It really annoys me that the gal ships best setup to shield tank have a bonus to try and force you not to)
but most of the "rodan" ships just get you halfway to a missile boat, even with bonuses, 3 launchers on a cruiser isn't much of a missile boat.

Besides, most Caldari ships bigger than a destroyer have drones, very few gallente ships have a launcher - and if they do, its often not fit (a NOS/neut/drone link is fit instead), whereas if a caldari boat can fit drones, it always takes the drones.


Think about it... how often do you see Caldari boats using drones?
*very* often - All the cruiser-> BS T1 hulls use drones

How often do you see the Gallente use missiles?
Almost never - T1 tristans, maybe a launcher on a missioningmega for MOAR DPS, and then the much rarer T2 ships that fit a specific role, and often are working in a team and aren't even there to do damage
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#10 - 2012-09-23 18:11:20 UTC
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Lachesis (Why do the "we don't do missiles" Gallente get a hull with missile bonuses, but the "we don't do drones" Caldari don't get a single hull with drone bonuses?)


To which we should add the Eris. Split weapons plus Gallente!
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-09-23 18:29:56 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
As long as the ships are full launcher setups then that's Kool & the Gang. I don't like mixed platform hulls.


Well, I think with a ship like the Typhoon, you fit for guns, or missiles, but not both.
The way I see it, its got the same rof bonus as the Raven and SNI, and 5/6ths the launchers
So its going to do 83.3% as much DPS from its launchers as those two Caldari BS's

With cruises, you have plenty of range, so a cruise raven doesn't have much of an advantage (but a torp one does, however, the Typhoon is a lot faster than a Raven)

So... you fit BCUs in the lows as you would with a Raven or SNI, and you've got 83.3% the firepower.
Now you've got 3 high slots left over to stick on Autos or arty - you need not neccessarily support these with gyros and TEs
And you've got 100m3 more drone space You can do 2 flights of lights, and a flight of heavies/sentries

So I think the 3 large guns + 100m3 extra drone space(lets say sentries) makes up for 1 less launcher.
You can fit its lows as if it was a pure missile boat - I think this would be more effective than putting on gyros and TEs to boost a mere 3 guns (likewise if I fit it with guns, I wouldn't put on 3 BCUs to boost just 3 launchers)

Now that drone damage mods are out, and I've got the fleet version with a larger drone bay, I have been considering a fit with damage mods in the lows for 2 weapon systems (drones + missiles or guns)
A drone + missile boat... if it could have a better shield tank, it'd belong with the Guristas fleet :)
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#12 - 2012-09-23 19:40:58 UTC
Exploited Engineer wrote:
John Ratcliffe wrote:
As title, are any non-Caldari hulls any good for missile boats? At all Class levels.


Ships with missile bonuses:


And here I forgot all stealth bombers. Shame on me.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2012-09-24 04:54:06 UTC
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Lachesis (Why do the "we don't do missiles" Gallente get a hull with missile bonuses, but the "we don't do drones" Caldari don't get a single hull with drone bonuses?)


New (upcoming winter) Tristan has no missiles, and CCP Fozzie mentioned that having Gal missile ships makes no sense. I suspect Lachesis losing missiles as well.... for drones, in the best case :)

.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-09-24 10:21:15 UTC
Well... I don't think they should have the tristan (or the lach) lose the launcher slots...
Instead they should add turret slots to the tristan, so you could fit 4 bonused guns instead of 2 bonused guns and 2 launchers.

Leave the option to put on a launcher or two, like the mega, hyperion, abaddon, apoc, celestis, etc, have the option to.
The lach should lose the missile bonus, get turret slots, but keep the launcher slots

And your comment about drones... are they planning on nerfing the drone bay on more Gal ships?

First it was the Moros.... ughh, I'm not complaining about the loss of the drone bonus, but its gallente, it should have a token drone bay....

Then they took the drone bay away from my poor atron - sure it got buffed in other ways, but its now the only T1 gal frigate without a drone bay -joining the Nemesis and the Ares as gal frigs with no drone bay
- the nemesis is a special case, but IMO the Ares and Atron should be able to deploy at least 1 light drone (and the Daredevil too, while we're at it, since its serpentis/angel ship - coming from the serp store which has more "gallente" like ships)
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#15 - 2012-09-24 15:12:41 UTC
Tristan:
Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level
10% Bonus to Drone tracking speed and hitpoints per level
Slot layout: 3 H (-1), 3 M, 3 L, 2 turrets, 0 launchers (-2)
Fittings: 35 PWG (-3), 130 CPU (+5)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 350(-41) / 450(+20) / 550 (+167)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 350 / 175s (-59.38s)/ 2 (+0.5)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 (+4) / 3.44 (-0.21) / 1106000 (+100000) / 3.56s (-0.02)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 (+20) / 40 (+35)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 40km (+12.5) / 600 (+10) / 5
Sensor strength: 9 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 41 (-1)
Cargo capacity: 140

Where the Tristan currently stands in changes (or planned to be) according to F&I post.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Danel Tosh
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-09-24 16:33:39 UTC
Dont forget about the new Destroyer hulls comming soon :)

CCP said that the caldari and the minmatar will get new missile destroyer boats, this and the missile buffs/nerfs should make them decent missile platforms.
Gitanmaxx
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-09-24 20:00:38 UTC
i would like T1 missile ships for Amarr. Those T2 missile ships look so juicy but way out of my price range.