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100% overwhelmed by manufacturing. No clue how to break into what I started playing for.

First post
Author
Ishi tofu
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-09-18 23:53:02 UTC
As an in-game age reference, I started my trial 3 days ago and went full member last night. I got into the game with the aim mostly on manufacturing and trade. The trade part is more of secondary interaction with my production career.

But here's my issue and the point of this post: I'm completely overwhelmed with just how much there is to learn about manufacturing to even get started. I really am pretty clueless on how to break into manufacturing. The problem I see in most "beginner" guides is that it outlines the "how to be good at it" part, but never the "what to build or research during week 1 and 2."

A few things about what I do (or think I) know:
I don't want to be near Jita
I need to produce mostly tech 1 things, probably ammo or mid slots I guess?

As far as what I don't know and have questions about (a non-exhaustive list):
How can I tell which blue prints are originals and which are copies?
Where should I start? Production or research?
What kind of goals should an industry(production) toon aim for? (not basic skill-wise)
Am I really going to be making pennies until I hit some golden jackpot blue print or tech 2 thing?

Thanks again in advance and expect more questions. I want to make the goods you will all use, so haaaalp! Big smile
ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
#2 - 2012-09-19 00:22:58 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Athechu
Ishi tofu wrote:
As an in-game age reference, I started my trial 3 days ago and went full member last night. I got into the game with the aim mostly on manufacturing and trade. The trade part is more of secondary interaction with my production career.

But here's my issue and the point of this post: I'm completely overwhelmed with just how much there is to learn about manufacturing to even get started. I really am pretty clueless on how to break into manufacturing. The problem I see in most "beginner" guides is that it outlines the "how to be good at it" part, but never the "what to build or research during week 1 and 2."

A few things about what I do (or think I) know:
I don't want to be near Jita
I need to produce mostly tech 1 things, probably ammo or mid slots I guess?

As far as what I don't know and have questions about (a non-exhaustive list):
How can I tell which blue prints are originals and which are copies?
Where should I start? Production or research?
What kind of goals should an industry(production) toon aim for? (not basic skill-wise)
Am I really going to be making pennies until I hit some golden jackpot blue print or tech 2 thing?

Thanks again in advance and expect more questions. I want to make the goods you will all use, so haaaalp! Big smile


Hello Ishi,

You can tell the different of the blueprint originals as they are a darker blue than the copies are(light blue). All BPO's(Blueprint Originals) that are un-researched can be found on the market. Copies are usually on contract as you can't sell them on the market.

You can start anywhere that you would like really. I would recommend doing some basic things like Ammo maybe small ships just so you can get the idea in what you need to do. Produce when you got enough materials to make the itmes that you want.

As for research it's always a good idea to do it as it lowers your costs in what you need and everything. As for when to start usually while you are getting minerals and ores that's the best time to do it.

I would look at your certifications under the industry tab as for skills that you want to learn. Character Sheet > Certificates > Open Certification Planner under Business and Industry look at those skills. Specifically the Production manager Basic all the way to Elite. Along with that maybe have Resource Harvester(under harvesting category) at elite too, and Common ore refiner can't hurt as well.

You will be making pennies till you start to produce some high level things and that doesn't mean that it has to be Tech 2 items. Look at your nearest market and see what is selling and what isn't and what the market needs in terms of ships and items. You will make bank if you can read the market correctly and produce enough to sell to turn a profit.

I also leave you with these two links if you haven't read it already.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Manufacturing
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Research_and_manufacturing

Hope it helps.


Edit: It will take some time for you to fully understand everything but start slow and work your way up to big things. EVE isn't something you can learn in one night.

ISD Athechu

STAR Executive

EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources

Helping Players Since 2011

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#3 - 2012-09-19 00:25:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Ishi tofu wrote:

How can I tell which blue prints are originals and which are copies?

Original blueprints have infinite production runs and are researchable to improve the efficiency, they're also a dark blue, the copies are pale blue, copies have a limited amount of production runs and there's nothing you can do to them to improve efficiency apart from your manufacturing skills.

Ishi tofu wrote:
Where should I start? Production or research?
Unless you have the isk to buy originals and the time to research them I would initially suggest going into small scale production using copies, as you ramp up the contents of your wallet you can then invest in originals to research.

Ishi tofu wrote:
What kind of goals should an industry(production) toon aim for? (not basic skill-wise)

You will find it easier to produce stuff if you team up with a like minded corp, preferably one with a POS (player owned structure) that you can use to research your blueprints, there are research slots available in NPC stations for both material efficiency (ME) and production efficiency (PE), open PE slots are common but open ME slots? rarer than rocking horse poo in a station, POS is the way to go for these, lets you copy originals as well :D you can always sell copies. Some market trading skills would be handy for both purchasing raw materials and selling finished products.

Finally never ever make the mistake of thinking that your minerals are free if you mine them yourself, they are worth what other people will pay for them so you need to factor that into your calculations, oh and expect to be learning an awful lot about spreadsheets.

You'll find a lot of info here

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Peri Simone
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
#4 - 2012-09-19 00:26:36 UTC
Manufacturing is hard. I've tried it and didn't get on with it, but I'd recommend ISK: The Guide as a good "how to". Downloadable for free here:

http://www.isktheguide.com/#dwnl
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-09-19 06:32:14 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ishi tofu wrote:

How can I tell which blue prints are originals and which are copies?

Original blueprints have infinite production runs and are researchable to improve the efficiency, they're also a darker blue than the copies, copies have a limited amount of production runs and there's nothing you can do to them to improve efficiency apart from your manufacturing skills, they're a lighter blue than the originals
They also say "ORIGINAL" or "COPY" in show info when I lookup a blueprint... at least some days ago they still did.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]

Tialano Utrigas
Caldari Minutemen
#6 - 2012-09-19 08:48:38 UTC
IF you buy it on market, its an Original. NPC traders stock loads of these all over the place so they are easy to find.

Make sure you determine your supply of raw materials early on and use a player created spreadsheet or program to work out potential profit or loss in your region. Isk Per Hour is a good application to use. I dont have the link at work but im sure Google will help you.

Manufacturing can be satisfying, but if you are buying the raw materials straight from the market and selling straight to the marker then it is unlikely to be profitable if you have low skills and a low ME level BPO. (Especially as getting into highsec material research labs is a real pain in the ass). I find that the prices of Mexallon and the amounts needed for certain turrets and weapons a real challenge and I do wonder how anyone can make them at a profit!

Profits are reasonable if you mine the materials yourself but, as a lot of people say, time is ISK so mining is not technically free especially with the costs of a mining barge (in terms of isk and time to train)

If you do decide to go into mining, its worth getting the basic Refinery Foreman and Common Ore refiner certs, as selling the refined minerals can be quite profitable and you can squeeze a sh*t load more minerals into your hauler than unrefined Ore.
J'Poll
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-09-19 09:11:08 UTC
You want to do industry, be prepared for:

* A lot of spreadsheet-fu (you need to keep track on where to make max profit)
* A lot of research-fu (not the Blueprint research, but actual research on what to produce, what is in demand and in low supply etc.)
* Lot of EN24-fu (best bet is to keep up to date with upcoming changes to ships, where are the big wars - big wars means big losses means people always need replacement ships)

Other then that. Mining your own minerals =/= free minerals.

You could have done anything else in that time that made you ISK so it's not free. Also time is money, you pay about 500mil ISK a month to play (PLEX prices in game) so time spent is money spent.

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Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-09-19 09:17:20 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
You could have done anything else in that time that made you ISK so it's not free. Also time is money, you pay about 500mil ISK a month to play (PLEX prices in game) so time spent is money spent.
I don't know, of course 30 days of game time is worth it's ISK, but somehow, spending a couple hours online doing nothing but chatting with friends is priceless to me, even if I could have made ISK meanwhile.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]

Lyric Lahnder
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-09-19 13:43:03 UTC
The Short of it is Ammo is a good place to start.

You need to look at the market, and see what is being purchased in large quantities.
All ammo types are not created equal. My Gallente pilot only tends to use two types of ammo Anti matter and thorium(just a personal preference).

Id say start with large ammo because you can sell it for the biggest price. Stick to tech I ammo as you only need basic minerals to construct them. Dont forget you dont always need to mine the minerals yourself. Most people go to a trade hub and purchase the minerals. That means you need to save on build cost buy getting a BPC with good ME or material Efficiency. You need to get your Production efficiency Skill up to reduce the amount of resources you need to construct things.

My alt has Scrap metal refiney maxed out so usually when he runs lvl 4s and I actually take the time to loot them, thats usually where he gets most of his mats.

If your not close to jita, find a mission hub by checking jumps through a system or npc's killed on dot lan and then cross check it on agent finder to make sure theres and agent in that area. Sell your ammo there and players will buy it even at a slight mark up because it will save them time.

Note if your not near a trade hub and you choose to purchase minerals from the market you will pay more for them.

Noir. and Noir Academy are recruiting apply at www.noirmercs.com I Noir Academy: 60 days old must be able to fly at least one tech II frigate. I Noir. Recruits: 4:1 k/d ratio and can fly tech II cruisers.

J'Poll
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-09-19 14:40:11 UTC
Sin Pew wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
You could have done anything else in that time that made you ISK so it's not free. Also time is money, you pay about 500mil ISK a month to play (PLEX prices in game) so time spent is money spent.
I don't know, of course 30 days of game time is worth it's ISK, but somehow, spending a couple hours online doing nothing but chatting with friends is priceless to me, even if I could have made ISK meanwhile.


Same here, I have times where all I do while logged in is chat with corp members and friends.

Point I want to make, is that own mined minerals aren't free.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#11 - 2012-09-19 15:24:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Ishi tofu
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-09-19 23:02:39 UTC
Thanks all for the responses. I wanted to post here before posting anything in the Industry section to get the extreme basics hammered out which looks like everyone here easily took care of, so thank you all again for that.

I've got a friend who's corp is a young mining corp that's about to start into manufacturing and is giving us a few open POS research and factory slots, so I'll have access to those facilities. Combine this with training a Retriver first (finishes in 3 days) to accompany corp low-sec mining ops and it sounds like I've almost got a free pass on a lot of the entrance woes outside of BPOs/BPCs and transporting goods. I'll spend this early time tracking sales and production data from the areas around while I mine and train skills. I'm assembling my evemon plan from the various links in the thread so thanks for those.

I've got a few random questions left but I'll hold on to those for now as I'll probably find the answers first hand. I'll head over to the industry section unless I have some complete noob question. Thanks again people and get out there and destroy things I might produce (except my own ship)!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#13 - 2012-09-20 00:50:25 UTC
You may find it difficult to use the research slots in the POS if you're not a member of the corp, IIRC there is an option for public availability, but it doesn't work. POS rights can be a right pig to set up, hopefully with the upcoming POS revamp (don't hold your breath) they'll fix the godawful interface for it.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Stratocast
Distant Knight Inc
#14 - 2012-09-20 08:41:55 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Science and Industry forum is the place this should have been


I disagree with that statement. This is relative to all new Citizens experience in EVE and I was going to post something similar here regarding the industrial career choices in EVE.

I've seen a lot of post answering indy questions and that's great, but nobody has addressed the real relative issue here which is that manufacturing needs to be much more streamlines for the new player experience. Infact, mining is the only real industrial choice for beginners. You can jump into mining from the first day and make profit, but manufacturing, invention, copying and R&D take much much longer to make a real profit from.

Not only do you have to wait ungodly amounts for the ingame skill points which hopefully you put into the right places, but you will be like a baby trying to play the stock market, because you're knowledge of what eve even is will still be in it's baby stages. Most people that start playing even will find out very quickly that it is very easy to make serious mistakes at the beginning. Mistakes = wasted time = wasted real life money = unhappy customers. The truth is that you're not alone in feeling overwhelmed, all professions in EVE are in the beginning and that's part of what most people love about the game, but what's frustrating is the fact that mining and combat mission running are by far the best choices and the others are just a waste of SP until you get tired of mining or mission running.If you think ships need re balancing lets take a look at the professions available as well.

I'm no sure if it's even possible to make anything else a good beginners choice, because everyone will start with little to no idea of what EVE is really about. This should be explained better right off of the bat. Hey here's the pros and cons of you career choices.
Mission running:
Pros - profitable, can learn pvp skills simultaneously, most exciting starter career, easy to understand for beginners.
Cons -Might die and lost you're ship which cost isk, but you have insurance!

Mining -
Pros - Retardedly easy to understand, can't really screw up mining. Can do this with minimal risk of loss in high sec. Can make about the same amount as mission runners with similar skill points. Can play semi AFK if you like to pauy to play semi afk which I don't, but some do, consistant, not much changes
Cons - Boring, can't pvp in a mining barge (Make mining lasers do damage!) hull mining ftw

All the other beginner career choices -
Pros - Add profit to mining and mission running,
Cons- Won't stand on their own feet like mission running and mining which you can specialize in on day 1, means training for another profession and more time before you're really even playing the game, only exlporation skills will mayapply to pvp combat, the most overly complicated things to do in the game.

Evelyn Meiyi
Corvidae Trading and Holding
#15 - 2012-09-20 10:48:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Evelyn Meiyi
Ishi tofu wrote:


A few things about what I do (or think I) know:
I don't want to be near Jita
I need to produce mostly tech 1 things, probably ammo or mid slots I guess?

As far as what I don't know and have questions about (a non-exhaustive list):

How can I tell which blue prints are originals and which are copies?
Where should I start? Production or research?
What kind of goals should an industry(production) toon aim for? (not basic skill-wise)
Am I really going to be making pennies until I hit some golden jackpot blue print or tech 2 thing?


Tech I is all you'll be able to manufacture for quite a while -- not only do you need a lot of advanced skills to work with T2 BPOs, but T2 blueprints are nearly impossible to find without going into fights that are waaaay above a new character's abilities.

Start with production (because most research outposts have insane waiting-times (35-47 days, on average) until slots open up). Also, invest heavily in a transport vessel of some kind (The Iteron is my favorite; not overly pricey and it has a decent cargo hold when you add rigs and cargo expanders).

As for goals -- pay attention to what you're manufacturing! The bigger items often don't present a good value-to-volume ratio; transporting a pair of 3,000,000 ISK artillery cannons appears to be a good idea -- until you realize that the space they take up can otherwise be used for miscellaneous small goods with six or ten times the overall value (for example, the contents of my salvage hangar (focus crystals, armor plates, ammunition, laser weapons) are estimated to be worth around 26 million ISK).

You'll be making more than pennies, but always remember that the price you get for your goods decreases as you put more of a given product on the market. Tech-2 items aren't uncommon, but you'll want to save the rarer modules for the right customer, because they can net you a small fortune in their own right.

That's all of my advice for now -- this can be a cutthroat business, but don't give up!
Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-09-20 14:16:06 UTC
Brand new to the game and interested in manufacturing? Some good advice above, but the place to start is actually in Trading skills.

The only reason you should be considering getting into manufacture is if you intend to continually manufacture and sell the finished goods on the market. Do not get into it because you think it will save you money in producing your own goods or you want to do it to for your corp mates. Worthless endevour - your needs are too small and the margins are too thin to justify the effort, just mission for 5 minutes and pay a bit extra for the things you want, a lot easier and cheaper in the long run.

So if you are getting into manufacturing for the right reason - profit. You need to be able to maximise that at the time you come to sell the goods. There is no point spending months training manufacturing skills just to sit on the finished goods while you then train the trading skills. Train the trading skills now and then experiment with them, you can actually make more money trading and do it while training the manufacturing skills. With experience you will identify items that can be manufactured for profit and better tailor what you need to train to do that.

Trading is a career in itself, it will takes some weeks of training to maximise the profit and months to gain the experience. By then you may have decided to go another route, but trading will never be wasted and manufacturing skills build on them.
Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-09-21 22:23:24 UTC
In addition to the good advice above: I think of manufacturing as a kind of assembly line. With these steps:
-Get BPs to the manufacturing site. (This includes buying originals and managing research jobs to improve them, or just buying copies of well-researched BPs).
-Get minerals to the manufacturing site.
-Manufacture items.
-Get items to market.
-Sell items (via Sell orders).

To make good isk, you need your assembly line to cycle through as often as possible. And at full capacity, where you're using all of your available manufacturing jobs all of the time. (For example, if your toon can do 4 manufacturing jobs at once, he pretty constantly has 4 jobs installed and running).

Certain chokepoints will come up, such as running out of one of the minerals needed for that mfging job. Or only having skills to do only 4 mfging jobs at once, but needing to to 5. As you go along and handle all of the steps in the cycle a few times, you'll develop a kind of system. Once your production and sales cycles are going at good speed, you'll start seeing good isk returns.

Final note: As was said, don't neglect the selling component of it. You don't have to be a market predictor and do market speculation. But you do need to sell your items using Sell Orders. If you just sell them at the price offered at the station in the Sell Item pop-up window, you'll never make any isk.
jcoutepascher
JC Mining And Research
#18 - 2012-09-22 10:23:46 UTC
i am a bit of a manufacturer ( iam a do it all char more than anything)
what you need to check first is it worth the money and effort you can do that by figuring how much profit you are going to make by producing somthing

ie sell price (buy orders vs sell orders) vs matts price . some things are just not profitable . they sell but they arnt profitable
you also need to take into acount moving avg ( basically sales that where done for this product for a given time)

overall manufacturing is a verry complex "profession" that requires lots of foretought into very deep details .

now will you buy the minerals or just mine them . (go into low sec ? )

etc ...

in the forethought you also need to evaluate the cost and therefore need to know about the manufacturing chain from mining ore to selling the thing and also it requires market knowledge .

now you can focus on one of the things but its still important to know the process so your stuff is priced right .