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Ship Bumping? Still needed?
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#21 - 2012-09-21 09:28:28 UTC
Biff, from Back to the Future, standing naked at the precipice of this thread.
Don't change bumping Shocked

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
Dread Pirate Pete
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-09-21 10:23:48 UTC
I think the problem with hisec bumping is that the bumpee is without option to respond or retaliate in kind. (no, bumping people back with a freighter does not count :p )

If you are shot at you can shoot back without hindrance.

If you are stolen from you can shoot back without hindrance.

If you are harassed by a bumper (who is in a cheap insured ship in a undecable npc corp) you can't do nothing of real value to defend yourself. Neither can your friends. All you can do is hope you have more patience than he does, which is not the best game mechanic.

Thus there needs to be a solution to allow active at the keyboard players to do something about getting harrased by a bumper. Something similar to the current theft mechanics.


(I live in lowsec and have no industrial/trader alts, at best I do ammo runs to the local hub)
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-09-21 11:02:05 UTC
interfering with wars by bumping who ever you choose in high sec is far from a valid tactic.

bumping to stop warp of a freighter so it can be ganked by suicide ships is also not a valid tactic.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#24 - 2012-09-21 11:16:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Katran Luftschreck
Take a VW Bug and bump it into a Tractor truck and see what happens. Odds are the truck won't move a millimeter and your VW bug will get kinda smushy in the front. Why such basic physics eludes CCP is beyond me.

Translation: If a a ship with 1/10000th the mass of a freighter hits a freighter, then it's not the freighter that should have it's speed or course changed.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-09-21 11:39:28 UTC
The question is, if bumping is removed, what should happen when ships get too close, pass through each other?

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
feihcsiM
THE B0YS
#26 - 2012-09-21 11:48:15 UTC
You think bumping is bad now? In the old days you could nano fit a BS to the point where you could bump a miner 150km+ out of a belt.

OK, in no particular order,

Bumping is an essential tool in pvp.
Real physics do not exist in EVE.
Pinata frieghters dying in hisec is generally their own fault.
If you're getting bumped while mining then orbit the damn rock.

Thats about it.

It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
#27 - 2012-09-21 12:20:15 UTC
AFKish wrote:
Seminole Sun wrote:

I'm assuming in your example the target was already a war target of some flavor. So what you were doing was not "riskless" because he could have turned around and shot you (or called for help to shoot you or whatever). A random person just being a jerk doesn't have that particular sword of Damocles hanging over their head.


Ok my next example is using a neutral alt to bump a WT off station as he undocks or when he agresses. This is riskless yet I think its fair. Another example is bumping a miner thats dieing to rats, this is also riskless and has the byproduct of being funny as hell.

As to what goons are doing bumping a freighter to hault I believe it serves a duel perpose...


AFKish wrote:
it serves a duel perpose

Shocked


Funny how the worst kind of uneducated idiots are always the ones trying to become the most bad ass "griefers". Big smile
AFKish
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-09-21 12:27:17 UTC  |  Edited by: AFKish
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:
AFKish wrote:
it serves a duel perpose

Shocked


Funny how the worst kind of uneducated idiots are always the ones trying to become the most bad ass "griefers". Big smile


Project Nemesis, Moar Tears look us up some time.
Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#29 - 2012-09-21 12:55:41 UTC
AFKish wrote:
Seminole Sun wrote:

I'm assuming in your example the target was already a war target of some flavor. So what you were doing was not "riskless" because he could have turned around and shot you (or called for help to shoot you or whatever). A random person just being a jerk doesn't have that particular sword of Damocles hanging over their head.


Ok my next example is using a neutral alt to bump a WT off station as he undocks or when he agresses. This is riskless yet I think its fair. Another example is bumping a miner thats dieing to rats, this is also riskless and has the byproduct of being funny as hell.

As to what goons are doing bumping a freighter to hault I believe it serves a duel perpose neither of which I am against. true it stops them from warping but this happens all over eve every day whether its a gank or not, and second bumping can be used to slow a targets movement so you can apply more dps or a bigger volley. Are you proposing that we do away with ship collision all together and make ships just fly through eachother because that is a total immersion buzzkill for me.


Surely you're not defending the collision system at present. It's a mess... How many times have you gotten randomly stuck near an asteroid or, worse, the giant reindeer antler looking thing in some missions.

Docking games need to be fixed. The fact that you have to do bumping to counter it is evidence that the docking situation is broken (both the "unseeable" undock... speaking of immersion buzzkill and the too easy redock). That's not evidence of good design or intent on bumping


AFKish wrote:

ps. did goons gank you or somthing to make you make this post?


Nope (I think I already answered this). Never been ganked. Nor have I been a victim of the Halaima ice miner bumping epidemic (those posts are hilarious btw). It just bothers me that there's a riskless griefing mechanic in game (I'd be complaining about the mechanic even if it was completely unconnected to tackling, ganking or anything else).

For the record, I'd like it REPLACED not just removed. I'm not sure with what, however.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-09-21 14:49:49 UTC
I would LOVE to see a collision mechanic in place. If a heavy armored cruiser bumps a mining rig at top speed then mass amounts of damage to miner. If a nano frig bumps a freighter the frig just pops. Im not gonna pretend to have thought through this at all but it would be cool. Maybe a ramming speed mod...reinforced prow for tearing through enemy hulls. And 'cause it causes damage you can shoot back. It could still effect speed and trajectory to continue to be used as it is now
Marsan
#31 - 2012-09-21 16:27:48 UTC
The problem with that idea is Jita 4-4 would become a death trap for frigates. I've used bumping in pvp a fair bit, but it's all been in WHs. It's basically the only way you can stop a ship from jump through a wormhole, or ducking back in a POS FF. It's also a good idea if you are jumping an indy. I'm always amused when a bomber or the like decloaks points me at a customs office only to watch me warp out, because I've fitted a pair of stabs. Sure I might still get away if they bumped me out of alignment, but at least they'd have a chance.



PS- What happens if someone is bumping you and you log out?

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#32 - 2012-09-21 18:23:50 UTC


Bumping is an integral part of Eve PVP and a widely used tactic in a number of scenarios. And it has **** all to do with high sec gayness or griefing.

nom nom
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-09-21 19:56:45 UTC
Seminole Sun wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Seminole Sun wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I can think of more that a few instances where bumping is extremely useful that doesn't involve afk miners. Simply put, bumping is a valid tactic.


Are these null-sec uses where it's far from a riskless activity or are they hi-sec uses where the risk is damn near zero?


Does it matter? Bumping is a valid tactic in a lot of circumstances.


riskless tactics are not a good thing for EVE (at least IMO). That goes for hi-sec carebears like myself as well. NOTHING we do should be riskless (I LIKED Hulkageddon... mostly because I tanked my Hulk ;)


Bumping in highsec does have risk attached. Someone might get angry & try to suicide gank you. You might get a wardec over it. They might threaten to kill you & your family.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-09-21 19:59:55 UTC
Dread Pirate Pete wrote:
I think the problem with hisec bumping is that the bumpee is without option to respond or retaliate in kind. (no, bumping people back with a freighter does not count :p )

If you are shot at you can shoot back without hindrance.

If you are stolen from you can shoot back without hindrance.

If you are harassed by a bumper (who is in a cheap insured ship in a undecable npc corp) you can't do nothing of real value to defend yourself. Neither can your friends. All you can do is hope you have more patience than he does, which is not the best game mechanic.

Thus there needs to be a solution to allow active at the keyboard players to do something about getting harrased by a bumper. Something similar to the current theft mechanics.


(I live in lowsec and have no industrial/trader alts, at best I do ammo runs to the local hub)



If you are bumped you can wardec the person, suicide gank them, bump them back... You have options to retaliate against this behaviour, but you carebears choose to complain about it instead of using said options.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#35 - 2012-09-21 20:03:56 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Dread Pirate Pete wrote:
I think the problem with hisec bumping is that the bumpee is without option to respond or retaliate in kind. (no, bumping people back with a freighter does not count :p )

If you are shot at you can shoot back without hindrance.

If you are stolen from you can shoot back without hindrance.

If you are harassed by a bumper (who is in a cheap insured ship in a undecable npc corp) you can't do nothing of real value to defend yourself. Neither can your friends. All you can do is hope you have more patience than he does, which is not the best game mechanic.

Thus there needs to be a solution to allow active at the keyboard players to do something about getting harrased by a bumper. Something similar to the current theft mechanics.


(I live in lowsec and have no industrial/trader alts, at best I do ammo runs to the local hub)



If you are bumped you can wardec the person, suicide gank them, bump them back... You have options to retaliate against this behaviour, but you carebears choose to complain about it instead of using said options.


Bumpitty bump bump, look at Stabber go. Bumpitty bump bump, bumpitty bump-OH CRAP IT'S A CATALYST SWARM!
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#36 - 2012-09-21 20:19:58 UTC
CorInaXeraL wrote:
Where did James 315 bump you? Lol

That much aside...yes. It is a valid tactic. Until such a day as ships can collide with one another for damage...totally valid. What if I see a freighter in hi-sec being a buffoon and carrying 10b isk in goodies, why should he have 0 risk for being a moron and me not be able to bump him away from the gates until a gank-squad arrives?

There are many uses beyond just this, and not simply limited to hi-sec.

Think you're just a victim of someone's bumpage and lashing out because you lost something. So...I go back to the original question.


While I do think bumping should be an active tactic, I also feel that (no pun intended) size should matter. If you are in a frigate, and you bump said freighter, you should go careening off into deep space. The freighter should barely have moved at all.
If you bumped it in a BS, then yeah, it should spin out a bit. They do have mass and size involved in the physics of the game already, does not seem it would be too hard to factor it in to bumping.

I have seen people in frigs and cruisers bump Carriers, Dreads, Freighters, Orcas... and send them flying. That simply should not be. Ugh That Dread or Carrier should for the most part steamroll right through the little peons bouncing off the hull.

Short version: Yes, I think bumping should stay. I also think it should get some basic physics adjustments.

~Zyella

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Cipio Hakoke
Tactical Manufacturing Group
#37 - 2012-09-21 20:27:38 UTC
I think bumping is alright, But I think it should be harder to bump a freighter... If a train is moving will a car hitting it on it's side stop it? How about head on? No the freighter will just mow it right down. I think the same logic should apply. Need a big ship to bump.
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#38 - 2012-09-21 21:02:18 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:

Short version: Yes, I think bumping should stay. I also think it should get some basic physics adjustments.

~Zyella



I can agree to that.

Though, I am still waiting for the day I can deal damage by ramming someone.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#39 - 2012-09-21 21:05:30 UTC
CorInaXeraL wrote:
Zyella Stormborn wrote:

Short version: Yes, I think bumping should stay. I also think it should get some basic physics adjustments.

~Zyella



I can agree to that.

Though, I am still waiting for the day I can deal damage by ramming someone.


That.... would be amazing. Lol

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Echo Belly
#40 - 2012-09-21 22:00:43 UTC
How about modules and rigs dedicated to ramming like in old naval battles ? Rams dealing specific types of damage or crippling certain systems (slower cap recharge / no more ECM for X seconds etc etc). That would be so cool ^^