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Tiericide for modules?

First post
Author
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#41 - 2012-09-21 00:56:49 UTC
Tiercide for modules is not needed. In 80-90% of the cases, the progression makes sense as it is today.

Meta 0 (T1) is easiest to obtain, offers base level functionality, with modest fitting requirements.

As you go up the scale, the Meta 1-4 items offer either more performance, easier fitting, or a combination of both. Which means that if you look at the market, at the prices that players are willing to pay for the modules, you'll see that Meta 1 cost < Meta 2 < Meta 3 < Meta 4.

Meta 3 is often the most effective from a cost / performance view.

In cases where the Meta 4 is in very high demand, it commands a premium price over even the T2 (which has higher skill requirements and often harder to fit). In which case players can choose to train up to fit T2, or they can pay the higher prices on the Meta4 versions, or make do with Meta3.

The only cases where modules should be adjusted are those where the Meta N price is higher then the Meta N+1 price (indicating that there's something screwy going on with stats / fitting). The armor plates were a very good example of "screwed up" as the Meta4 was superior in every way to the T2 variant.
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2012-09-21 03:13:59 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Tiercide for modules is not needed. In 80-90% of the cases, the progression makes sense as it is today.

Meta 0 (T1) is easiest to obtain, offers base level functionality, with modest fitting requirements.

As you go up the scale, the Meta 1-4 items offer either more performance, easier fitting, or a combination of both. Which means that if you look at the market, at the prices that players are willing to pay for the modules, you'll see that Meta 1 cost < Meta 2 < Meta 3 < Meta 4.

Meta 3 is often the most effective from a cost / performance view.

In cases where the Meta 4 is in very high demand, it commands a premium price over even the T2 (which has higher skill requirements and often harder to fit). In which case players can choose to train up to fit T2, or they can pay the higher prices on the Meta4 versions, or make do with Meta3.

The only cases where modules should be adjusted are those where the Meta N price is higher then the Meta N+1 price (indicating that there's something screwy going on with stats / fitting). The armor plates were a very good example of "screwed up" as the Meta4 was superior in every way to the T2 variant.


And that is the problem with the whole Meta issue. There is no point in having any of the Meta 0-3 items, outside of using them for invention. None. Zero. Nada.

And there should be.

If you can use either Meta 4 or Tech 2, then you will NEVER use any of the Meta 0-3 in the VAST majority of cases. The only module I can think of outside of that rule is Malkuth launchers.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander

Qual
Knights of a Once Square Table INC.
#43 - 2012-09-21 09:53:01 UTC
Dear CCP

Reworking the whole meta system would be awsome. Especially if that would mean we could get T2 meta's.

If you made the T2 metas only available through invention I would be able to forgive you for not fixing the whole T2 BPO mess...

Fly safe,
Qual
Hauling Hal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-09-21 12:33:49 UTC
Gogela wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Yes, YES, modules need to be purged as well. By prodding them like that. Not, not here my boy, that's censored. Yes, there, keep hitting that spot. Good. Now dip them in oil. Then set them on fire, while dancing like a tribal savage during a full moon night, your body rolled in delicious ham.

When or how this would happen, we cannot tell, yes, we cannot. Too soon it is, much to learn we have, much to do there is, yes, yes, hmpf. Maybe that's something we could unleash CCP Fozzie to look at when the ship balancing is in a good place in the long run - we better keep him busy on hard projects or feed him raw meat all day long. If we don't, he starts climbing walls while drooling and attacking various people in the office. Can't have that, it's a pain to clean the mess.

wat?


Are you new here? (The player)
Hauling Hal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-09-21 12:35:23 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Tiercide for modules is not needed. In 80-90% of the cases, the progression makes sense as it is today.

Meta 0 (T1) is easiest to obtain, offers base level functionality, with modest fitting requirements.

As you go up the scale, the Meta 1-4 items offer either more performance, easier fitting, or a combination of both. Which means that if you look at the market, at the prices that players are willing to pay for the modules, you'll see that Meta 1 cost < Meta 2 < Meta 3 < Meta 4.

Meta 3 is often the most effective from a cost / performance view.

In cases where the Meta 4 is in very high demand, it commands a premium price over even the T2 (which has higher skill requirements and often harder to fit). In which case players can choose to train up to fit T2, or they can pay the higher prices on the Meta4 versions, or make do with Meta3.

The only cases where modules should be adjusted are those where the Meta N price is higher then the Meta N+1 price (indicating that there's something screwy going on with stats / fitting). The armor plates were a very good example of "screwed up" as the Meta4 was superior in every way to the T2 variant.


The cost is often based on the salvage value not the stats of the mod for meta 1-4. It's only highly sought after mods that have a stats and availability driven cost. Arbalest HML, for instance.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#46 - 2012-09-21 12:51:38 UTC
The HMLs are actually pretty good examples of what could be done.

Look at the Malkuth HML. It's got lower fitting requirements than the Arbalest. Lower ROF, but easier to fit.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#47 - 2012-09-21 14:23:13 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The HMLs are actually pretty good examples of what could be done.

Look at the Malkuth HML. It's got lower fitting requirements than the Arbalest. Lower ROF, but easier to fit.



yeah this is what i am talking about...

like what they did with the hulk...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#48 - 2012-09-24 18:49:33 UTC
What I would LIKE to see, is a system where each module has the opportunity to be useful, while at the same time having a bit of lore behind it.

For Example:

Meta 0, Tech 1 Module = The Baseline Model, can be constructed anywhere.
Meta 1 Modules = All have an improvement in CPU efficiency and are the most CPU efficient.
Meta 2 Modules = All have an improvement in Powergrid Efficiency and use power/capacitor most efficently.
Meta 3 Modules = All have an improvement of Range over all the other Metas.
Meta 4 Modules = All Meta 4s have an improvement over cycling time (or Rate of Fire) than Meta 0-5s.
Meta 5, Tech 2 Modules = Have best primary stat, but with higher PG/CPU costs.

I'd like to take it up a notch by restricting certain Metas to certain areas.. for example, you can only produce Meta 4 Autocannons in low-sec Minmatar space... but that might not go well in actual practice.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-09-24 19:20:43 UTC
Module balance is something that certainly needs looking at but outright scrapping the meta-levels (Meta-cide?) isn't really the way forward here, rather some tweaking here and there to give some of the under-performing modules a reason to exist.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2012-09-24 20:06:09 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Module balance is something that certainly needs looking at but outright scrapping the meta-levels (Meta-cide?) isn't really the way forward here, rather some tweaking here and there to give some of the under-performing modules a reason to exist.


How do you really do that without scrapping the meta levels as they are currently? Underperforming modules will always be underperforming next to Tech 2 and Meta 4 under the current system. And if you tweak them too closely with each other than the modules will be too homogeneous, you defeat the purpose of this change all together.

Ideally, if we were really serious about this, what you would do would be to start from scratch, including the name. Make four faction-based companies for every module class in the game (they would be subsidiaries to the current faction manufacturing companies, so the blueprints would still be available through normal channels). Then those four companies would be assigned a particular meta for each module type. For example:

Amarr "Holy Hammer" Weapons Group sells only Meta 3 Projectile Guns (because they are really good at ranged weapons), whereas Gallente's "Eligant Designs" could sell only Meta 2 Projectile Guns because they understand Powergrids better, etc. The names of the guns would reflect the design, making the currently named "220mm Medium Prototype I Automatic Cannon" into "220mm "Holy Hammer" Medium Autocannon". In the attributes you could list who actually built the gun too.

Another set of companies would do Electronics and Electronic Warfare modules, still another set of companies would do propulsion, etc. and best yet, it wouldn't have to effect anything Meta 6 or above as those are much rarer and can keep their unique abilities. As far as actually making the items, all the Meta 1-5, would require the base model to be produced first, then combined with whatever additional resources are needed, just like you must do with Tech 2 modules.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander

Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#51 - 2012-09-25 00:43:05 UTC
Orakkus wrote:


Amarr "Holy Hammer" Weapons Group sells only Meta 3 Projectile Guns (because they are really good at ranged weapons), whereas Gallente's "Eligant Designs" could sell only Meta 2 Projectile Guns because they understand Powergrids better, etc. The names of the guns would reflect the design, making the currently named "220mm Medium Prototype I Automatic Cannon" into "220mm "Holy Hammer" Medium Autocannon". In the attributes you could list who actually built the gun too..


in-re-your-naming-shitstom

no


in-re-your-npc-selling-metas

no


Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.

Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#52 - 2012-09-25 02:04:40 UTC
Until I saw this thread, I had no idea Tiericide lived on.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

William Walker
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#53 - 2012-09-25 05:47:29 UTC
I read "Genocide for Monocles" and was disappointed when I got in here.

ヽ(⌒∇⌒)ノ へ(゜∇、°)へ (◕‿◕✿)

ColdCutz
Frigonometry
#54 - 2012-09-25 06:10:45 UTC
This would necessitate reverting the prop mods back to their old names! \o/ The new naming scheme was only setup to more 'clearly' define meta levels anyway. I love my Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrives; they had a unique name.. kind of like Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron - and we're not changing that.
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#55 - 2012-09-25 14:24:42 UTC
Denidil wrote:
Orakkus wrote:


Amarr "Holy Hammer" Weapons Group sells only Meta 3 Projectile Guns (because they are really good at ranged weapons), whereas Gallente's "Eligant Designs" could sell only Meta 2 Projectile Guns because they understand Powergrids better, etc. The names of the guns would reflect the design, making the currently named "220mm Medium Prototype I Automatic Cannon" into "220mm "Holy Hammer" Medium Autocannon". In the attributes you could list who actually built the gun too..


in-re-your-naming-shitstom

no


Fair enough. But the primary idea of metacide of modules appears to have been acceptable.

Quote:

in-re-your-npc-selling-metas

no


That was just a single idea. Another idea, one sort of from the blog Margin Call, and admittedly much better, is having a puzzle-like minigame to determine success of making a Meta 0 into a higher level Meta. I think even better that that would be a mix of a mini-game/additional rare resource/ possibly location having an effect on if a Meta 0 becomes a higher meta. Something akin to the current invention process that brings a Tech 1 weapon to a Tech 2. Perhaps even the same thing, only easier because of the lower quality.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander

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