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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak First post First post First post
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Singularity's Edge 291
Tomcio FromFarAway Singularity's Edge Likes received: 291	#2081 - 2012-09-20 20:36:00 UTC Lili Lu wrote: Tomcio FromFarAway wrote: Ark Anhammar wrote: Yes. This. I will marry you! Hey I was first But do you want me for my thinking and writing or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urNyg1ftMIU&noredirect=1 Could this be a reason for wanting more beyond the door? I think I'll go with the latter for now

Wpolo

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 2

#2082 - 2012-09-20 20:38:22 UTC

Wpolo wrote:

CCP your not seeing right. Let me show u, realistic.
I used EFT for cruiser, BC and BS with 2 damage mods (BC II, HS II,...) and max turrets or launcher as possible. All lvl 5 skils. Without drones.

omen --------------------------------------caracal
5 x Heavy beam t2 won't fit--------- 5xHM t2
PG: 1239 / 912,5 (135,8%) ------- PG:472,5/662,5 (71%)
CPU: 198,75 / 312,5 (63%) --- CPU:206,25/437,5 (47%)

gleam: 7,5 + 10 ------------------- range: 113,9
dps: 362 ------------------------- dps:294
Volley: 953 ------------------------- volley: 1973

aurora: 54 + 10
dps: 207
Volley:544

Rupture ------------------------------------- Moa
4x720s t2--------------------------------------5x250s t2
PG:992/1075 (92,3%) ------------- PG:938/975 (96,2%)
CPU: 156/406,25 (38,4%) -----------CPU: 217,5/450 (48,3%)

quake: 7,5+22 ------------------------------ javelin: 9+15
dps: 165 -------------------------------------- dps:257
Volley: 1447 ------------------------------------ hit:961

tremor: 54+22 ------------------------ spike: 97+15
dps: 288 ---------------------------------dps:147
volley: 2532 -------------------------------volley: 549

Harbinger -------------------------------- Drake
7 x heavy beam t2 ----------------------7xHM t2
PG:1734,5/1875 (92,5%) --------PG:663,5/1062,5 (62,4%)
CPU:254,25/468,75 (54,2%) ---CPU:368,75/656,25 (56,2%)

gleam: 7,5+10 ------------------------ range: 75,9
dps:475 -------------------------------dps: 411
volley:1667 ---------------------------- volleyt: 2762

aurora: 54+10
dps: 271
volley: 953

hurricane ---------------------------------- Ferox
6 x720s t2 -----------------------------------6x250s t2
PG:1487/1687,5 (88,1%) ------PG:1125,2/1343,75 (83,7%)
CPU: 204/500 (40,8%) -------- CPU: 249/593,75 (41,9%)

Quake: 7,5+22 ------------------------ javelin: 14+15
dps: 432 --------------------------------dps:309
volley: 3798 ---------------------------volley:1153

Tremor: 54+22 ---------------------- spike: 97+15
dps: 247 --------------------------------- dps:176
volley: 2170 -------------------------------volleyt:659

Now let us assume that the large ships are in good balance.

abaddon ---------------------------- raven
7xtachyon beam t2 won't fit ------6x cruise t2
PG:29700/26250 (113%) ----PG:7092,2/11875 (59,7%)
CPU:438/700 (62,6%) ------ CPU:377/875 (43,1%)

gleam: 17+25 ------------ range: 227,8
dps: 781 --------------------------- dps:512
volley: 5717 --------------------volley: 3788

aurora: 119+25
dps: 446
volley: 3267

maelstrom -----------------------------------rokh
8x1400s t2 ------------------------------------8x450s t2
PG:25742/26250 (98,1%) --------PG:16634/18750 (88,8%)
CPU: 342/800 (42,8%)------------CPU: 504/904 (51,7%)

quake: 15+44-------------------------- javelin: 27+30
dps: 615 ---------------------------------- dps: 549
volley: 10847 -------------------------volley: 3074

tremor: 108+44 ---------------------- spike: 194+30
dps: 351 ----------------------------- dps:314
volley: 6198 ------------------------ volley:1757

1- HM and cruise are to easy on PG 60% x 90 %. With that balanced drake will have to reduce the tank.
2- HM have the highest volley but ok dps. Reduce de volley and speed up the round. DPS 390~410 is balanced.
3- Use HM as Cruise. Lower the speed of the missile and add flight time, keep the range. The delay will enable reps before the volley.
4- Heavy beam sucks. That really need some love, please.
5- Ferox need one more turret bay.
6- HM disntace are in balance (acording with the large weapons). Don't change.

With hard cold fact it is easy to see the RIGHT CHANGE.

About TD,
please if you are treating missile as gunnery do it fully. Mods that boost range, sig ex and sig res (as tracking). It is hard to counter TD in missile with rigs (and just the range).

Just making visible on the next page

Shrrrg

Red Federation

RvB - RED Federation

Likes received: 11

#2083 - 2012-09-20 20:41:13 UTC

Wpolo wrote:

[...]
1- HM and cruise are to easy on PG 60% x 90 %. With that balanced drake will have to reduce the tank.
2- HM have the highest volley but ok dps. Reduce de volley and speed up the round. DPS 390~410 is balanced.
3- Use HM as Cruise. Lower the speed of the missile and add flight time, keep the range. The delay will enable reps before the volley.
4- Heavy beam sucks. That really need some love, please.
5- Ferox need one more turret bay.

With hard cold fact it is easy to see the RIGHT CHANGE.

About TD,
please if you are treating missile as gunnery do it fully. Mods that boost range, sig ex and sig res (as tracking). It is hard to counter TD in missile with rigs (and just the range).

1 Missiles cant downgrade a gun or something to make something fit. So if you make them harder to fit you are simple killing every cruiser and he has to take Hams(worse powergrid at the moment) or take frigsize missiles. I dont think that that is the goal of a Hm rebalance.
4 heavy beams can really use some love (and railguns and medium arties)
5 Ferox is okay. Ever flown a rr Ferox gang? It's fun and easy underestimated.

And have you read the end? if the TD is coming then the TE and TC will affect missile a sdirect counterparts

Doddy

Excidium.

Likes received: 966

#2084 - 2012-09-20 20:41:35 UTC

Wpolo wrote:

Just making visible on the next page

Why bother? he clearly didn't read the op. i mean just look at his last sentance.

Luca Bound

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 1

#2085 - 2012-09-20 20:44:05 UTC

I'm honest, I did not read most of this threadnout but what I read was ratehr interesting.

I'm am mostly suing missles but I think that tehse changes will be balancing HM quite good, though the 20% dmg reduce might be a little bit over the edge.

But what I would rather have implemented for missiles is a real explosion radius like a smartbomb has.
I think that would make missles realy unike and would balance the new nerfs to them a little bit.

The explosion radius should/could be the same they allready have, though the system for it might have to be adapted a little bit as currently it's best to have a small explosion radius. With these changes that might be a bad thing. But on the other hand, taht coudl be a good moment to introduce some more missiles with different explosion radiuses, some for large AOE dmg and some more concentrated for single targets.

So what do you think ?

Wpolo

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 2

#2086 - 2012-09-20 20:47:14 UTC

Doddy wrote:

Wpolo wrote:

Just making visible on the next page

Why bother? he clearly didn't read the op. i mean just look at his last sentance.

Now i readed. I missed this one last night....

Tomcio FromFarAway

Singularity's Edge

Likes received: 291

#2087 - 2012-09-20 20:47:20 UTC

Wpolo wrote:

...realistic....I used EFT

Wpolo wrote:

hurricane ---------------------------------- Ferox

Tier 1 vs Tier 2?

Wpolo wrote:

5- Ferox need one more turret bay.
6- HM disntace are in balance (acording with the large weapons). Don't change.

5 - no
6- comparing medium weapon with large weapon ?

Wpolo wrote:

About TD,
please if you are treating missile as gunnery do it fully. Mods that boost range, sig ex and sig res (as tracking). It is hard to counter TD in missile with rigs (and just the range).

Maybe read the OP before posting.

Wpolo

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 2

#2088 - 2012-09-20 20:49:59 UTC

Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:

Wpolo wrote:

...realistic....I used EFT

Wpolo wrote:

hurricane ---------------------------------- Ferox

Tier 1 vs Tier 2?

Wpolo wrote:

5- Ferox need one more turret bay.
6- HM disntace are in balance (acording with the large weapons). Don't change.

5 - no
6- comparing medium weapon with large weapon ?

Wpolo wrote:

About TD,
please if you are treating missile as gunnery do it fully. Mods that boost range, sig ex and sig res (as tracking). It is hard to counter TD in missile with rigs (and just the range).

Maybe read the OP before posting.

Not comparing. That is the only way of display that works.... read LR cruiser and so on

Tau Cabalander

Retirement Retreat

Working Stiffs

Likes received: 6,913

#2089 - 2012-09-20 20:50:54 UTC | Edited by: Tau Cabalander

CCP Fozzie wrote:

The damage per second of heavy missile ships like the Drake seems low, why are you making it even lower?

So if there is a move to nerf long range, are there plans to buff Caldari mobility so that they can operate at shorter ranges?

Caldari ships tend to be the slowest and least agile, which is okay when you are a sniping platform, but not when you have to be in closer.

State War Academy Caldari State 5,978
Marlona Sky State War Academy Caldari State Likes received: 5,978	#2090 - 2012-09-20 21:12:38 UTC I would also like to suggest, I'm sure it already has been, that tracking disrupters affect NPC structures. Specifically the one that shoots the big badda boom missile that only a dedicated tank can bounce back from. That way you don't have to revamp/remove that complex.

Garviel Tarrant

Beyond Divinity Inc

Shadow Cartel

Likes received: 2,240

#2091 - 2012-09-20 21:13:13 UTC

Tau Cabalander wrote:

CCP Fozzie wrote:

The damage per second of heavy missile ships like the Drake seems low, why are you making it even lower?

You don't have to, fit a TE

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 2,089
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire Likes received: 2,089	#2092 - 2012-09-20 21:15:23 UTC 2 homogenization = bad It ruined WoW it will ruin this game. You are dumbing the game down pure and simple. Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: *House Forelli*


Marlona Sky State War Academy Caldari State Likes received: 5,978	#2093 - 2012-09-20 21:16:04 UTC Tomcio FromFarAway wrote: Wpolo wrote: [quote=Wpolo] hurricane ---------------------------------- Ferox Tier 1 vs Tier 2? Taking the tier system out back and shooting it is part of the big plan. What will your argument be then?


Shrrrg Red Federation RvB - RED Federation Likes received: 11	#2094 - 2012-09-20 21:19:38 UTC Marlona Sky wrote: Tomcio FromFarAway wrote: Wpolo wrote: [quote=Wpolo] hurricane ---------------------------------- Ferox Tier 1 vs Tier 2? Taking the tier system out back and shooting it is part of the big plan. What will your argument be then? waiting for the rebalance of the ships and not for the rebalance of the weapons?

James Amril-Kesh

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 11,532

#2095 - 2012-09-20 21:21:38 UTC | Edited by: James Amril-Kesh

Boy am I going to be smug when we're still not going to see an increase in use of medium beams, arty, or rails.

Whatever logic apparently dictates to you that people will somehow magically start using these more is flawed. They're bad weapons systems and they need to be buffed. Part of the reason HMLs look so ******* amazing is, yes they're OP, but that's in combination with the fact that the medium LR turrets are just so terrible.

What needs to be done is this:
A gentler nerf to HMs (same range nerf plus 5-10% damage reduction) plus a slight to moderate buff of medium LRs (say, increased ROF on all three plus decreased cap use on rails and beams to compensate). At the same time, switch the fitting requirements of HMs and HAMs. HAMs should be easier to fit than HMs. Also buff HAM explosion velocity and radius slightly.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Tyberius Franklin

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 2,014

#2096 - 2012-09-20 21:26:42 UTC

Marlona Sky wrote:

Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:

Wpolo wrote:

[quote=Wpolo]
hurricane ---------------------------------- Ferox

Tier 1 vs Tier 2?

Taking the tier system out back and shooting it is part of the big plan. What will your argument be then?

Until those changes are made it's pointless to speculate as this argument may not even be worth making at that point

Terik Deatharbingr

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 257

#2097 - 2012-09-20 21:38:12 UTC

Garviel Tarrant wrote:

Terik Deatharbingr wrote:

Garviel Tarrant wrote:

TriadSte wrote:

CCP Fozzie wrote:

All Missiles

Increase missile acceleration so that real range is much closer to the client assumed range of flighttime*speed against a stationary target. This means a slight range buff for all missiles, and missiles will act in a way that is more intuitive to newer players.

Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 30%
-Base velocity increased by 6.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.

You are having a late April fools joke yes?

So in that respect I'm going to lose :

106 DPS
4.5 Seconds of flight time that's a loss of 37km with current figures.

Are you going crazy over there in Iceland or what? What in gods name got into your thick skulls about reducing heavy missile damage?

Theyre not exactly awesome DPS as they are. What was the thought process for making medicore DPS.....worse?

There i fixed that quote for you.

Also HML's were the highest dps long range weapon by FAR, and they will still have more dps than comparable long range weapons after the nerf.

l2p?

but if long range guns switch to short range ammo, does their DPS NOT exceed that of the drake? Can the drake change to HAM's mid fight?

No.. HML's still out damage them with the exception of the beams with close range ammo..... And they dont' have to worry about tracking like the long range weapons do.

Stop being bad.

REALLY? You're telling me that med arty's DPS with Quake ammo on a Cane is lower than Scourge Fury on a Drake? Did you eat paint chips as a child? Live under powerlines? I know the game of eve attracts dishonest people incapable of telling the truth, but that is just ludicrous.

Terik Deatharbingr

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 257

#2098 - 2012-09-20 21:39:45 UTC

Garviel Tarrant wrote:

HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:

Actually

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1947535#post1947535

Look at thse comparisons.

And heavy missiles still need target painters for everything but battleships if not using rigors

Uhm, HML drakes **** frigates..

And i'm pretty sure frigates are smaller than battleships..

Miss Le NerfSxBye wrote:

So there's a frigate somewhere that can outrun turret weapons?

rofl
Don't you start being bad too...

You have to be the dumbest Eve player in the history of the game! Go Rat an elite frigate with a drake....and when you've fired off more volleys to kill that then it takes to kill a BS, then come back and say that. Another Caldari hater with no basis for their arguments.

Rayn Enterprises 78
Asmodes Reynolds Rayn Enterprises Likes received: 78	#2099 - 2012-09-20 21:41:01 UTC \| Edited by: Asmodes Reynolds I came up, with half functional alternative to this missile Nerf, it is not perfect, nor did I expect it to be. Located here (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155484&find=unread) If you would like to participate in developing the idea the please post, also if you like the idea please like it.

Caldari Provisions Caldari State 83
Soko99 Caldari Provisions Caldari State Likes received: 83	#2100 - 2012-09-20 21:41:17 UTC Rose Honey wrote: Personally I always use a clean clone in null, but Given I was talking about L4s from the start. I assumed anyone replying would also be talking about L4s. High sec ones, cause well its were most of them are. Makes sense.. except the nerf will not just effect HS missioning tengus..

First pagePrevious page103104105106107Next pageLast page

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Singularity's Edge

Perkone

Caldari State

Red Federation

RvB - RED Federation

Excidium.

State War Academy

Caldari State

Retirement Retreat

Working Stiffs

State War Academy

Caldari State

Beyond Divinity Inc

Shadow Cartel

Imperial Academy

Amarr Empire

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Rayn Enterprises

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State