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Dev blog: Brains! NOM NOM!

First post First post First post
Author
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#41 - 2012-09-20 14:43:16 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP FoxFour
ChromeStriker wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Louis deGuerre wrote:
BRAIIIIIIINNNNNS BRAIIIINNNNSSSS

This is going to be soooooo much fun. I can already taste the sea of tears Pirate


A sea of tears over this... you should have seen what else we wanted the NPC to do. Pirate


What "did" you want to them to do?


Pods. Lots and lots of pod kills. Twisted That and I heard something about NPC's with cynos when someone brings a capital on the field.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Lirinas
B.C.C.O.F Investments
#42 - 2012-09-20 14:43:26 UTC
I'm followed AI changes with some concern over the last couple years. Although my main can use just about every weapon system under the sun, I've always preferred drones because most people preferred missiles.

A little drone hate is nice to keep the drone pilots from falling asleep on missions, but too much drone hate completely invalidates them as a practical weapon system. That's why you see hoards of Drakes & Tengus and not many Ishtars/Myrmidons in Wormhole space.

What I keep wondering is if/when we'll start seeing some anti-missile systems aside from Defenders. There's Real-World examples of anti-missile systems, and numerous suggestions on the forums over the years. If all NPC's now are going to be more aggressive in targeting drones, then it's only logical they should be more aggressive with anti-missile defenses as well.
Castor II
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#43 - 2012-09-20 14:43:48 UTC
Can you teach NPCs to suicide gank too? ty
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#44 - 2012-09-20 14:44:14 UTC
Simon Severasse wrote:
Does the "attack ships of the same size as the NPC" apply to wh too?


No, I did not touch the sleepers. While it is true sleepers have the Level One AI, they have a version of it without any customization. The customization was added when we introduced Incursions.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2012-09-20 14:44:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
CCP FoxFour wrote:
ChromeStriker wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Louis deGuerre wrote:
BRAIIIIIIINNNNNS BRAIIIINNNNSSSS

This is going to be soooooo much fun. I can already taste the sea of tears Pirate


A sea of tears over this... you should have seen what else we wanted the NPC to do. Pirate


What "did" you want to them to do?


Pods. Lots and lots of pod kills. Twisted That and I heard something about NPC's with cynos when someone bring a capital on the field.

Shocked

DO THIS!!!!!!!!!

Shocked

Edit: seriously, at least pod kill in 0.0, and an escalation thats actually dangerous to a cap would be amazing

No Worries

DJ FunkyBacon
Rabid Ninja Space Monkey Inc.
Monkeys with Guns.
#46 - 2012-09-20 14:46:02 UTC
And now CCP brings us one step closer to Skynet.

Radio Host, Blogger, Lowsec Resident, PvP Afficionado.

funkybacon.com - Blog

FunkyBacon on Twitter

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#47 - 2012-09-20 14:46:55 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
On the point of Logi in DED complexes, again, this is just ramping up the amount of people you'll need in a site as one logi will no longer be enough, you'll need at least two, maybe three when neut towers, webs etc come into play, and don't get me started on level 4 missions where guristas can permajam a person for 10 minutes straight.

It forces people to work in groups, yes, but maybe it's reducing certain group work to lowest common denominator.

Hmm... not that I'm opposed to the idea, but it's going to make it a lot more difficult to bring newer players along on higher level missions. I remember a lot of my first involvement (and making ISK) in the game was running L4 missions with my corp, even though I could barely get through level 3s at the time, combined with the drake resistance nerf that's going to make getting into higher level missions a complete non-starter for a lot of newer players.

So yes, while it won't have that much of an effect on the solo mission grinder, it might actually run counter to introducing newer players. Gone will be the days of tanking a room with a Tengu while so a nooby corp member can get in and shoot at some NPCs in their first caracal or drake as they'd be insta-blaped by NPCs (presuming you don't have 2 or 3 other corp members who're also willing to come along in Scimis).

Be very warey. There's a lot of meta-play around current NPC aggression mechanics.


This is one of the reasons we are trying to get this out on the test server now and feedback on it. What we actually hope happens, due to ships wanting to kill ships of their own size, is that newer players can come along in frigates and deal with the frigate NPCs.

As for the Logi question, this will take a lot of testing. We were still able to complete missions internally with a single logistics ship, it took some effort but we did it.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#48 - 2012-09-20 14:47:53 UTC
Jackie Fisher wrote:
Will they pod? Twisted


I tried man, I tried. :( Something about us losing subscribers or something about angering our players instead of making them happy.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Simon Severasse
Los Marginales
#49 - 2012-09-20 14:48:05 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Simon Severasse wrote:
Does the "attack ships of the same size as the NPC" apply to wh too?


No, I did not touch the sleepers. While it is true sleepers have the Level One AI, they have a version of it without any customization. The customization was added when we introduced Incursions.


Thank you FoxFour. Big smile
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#50 - 2012-09-20 14:49:22 UTC
Lirinas wrote:
I'm followed AI changes with some concern over the last couple years. Although my main can use just about every weapon system under the sun, I've always preferred drones because most people preferred missiles.

A little drone hate is nice to keep the drone pilots from falling asleep on missions, but too much drone hate completely invalidates them as a practical weapon system. That's why you see hoards of Drakes & Tengus and not many Ishtars/Myrmidons in Wormhole space.

What I keep wondering is if/when we'll start seeing some anti-missile systems aside from Defenders. There's Real-World examples of anti-missile systems, and numerous suggestions on the forums over the years. If all NPC's now are going to be more aggressive in targeting drones, then it's only logical they should be more aggressive with anti-missile defenses as well.


As for the drone hate: This is something we are keeping a very close eye on and have already tweaked several times. We are working hard to find the right balance between just killing all drones and drone pilots having to pay attention.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#51 - 2012-09-20 14:51:27 UTC
I love the changes. I hope this is just one of several to the NPC AI as it is very much in need of an overhaul. I had put up a discussion about making a few sites out in null to be more like incursion sites to break up the boorishness of running anoms but this is a great first step.

While we are talking about Brains. Can any of you comment about the brain in a box idea talked about at fan fest will we be seeing this in the winter to at a later date.
Deathwing Reborn
#52 - 2012-09-20 14:51:52 UTC
Ok, now that you are making normal NPC's more interesting. When are you going to finally make something that will make things fun for ratting in Capitals? There are plenty of people that rat in carriers in Null Sec, that are fighting waves of NPCs that can be taken out in a single battleship. When are we going to start to see NPC capitals on the field or new sites in 0.0 that will make things challenging for someone in a carrier again?

The horde sites in the drone regions used to be decent because you could pop all the bunkers and have enough NPC dps to actually threaten your carrier if you wernt careful. Now its just a joke. There are many missions where NPCs are building capitals but we never see them to shoot them. And for those who will moan at grinding NPC capital HP, you could always continue with the current easy mode sites.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#53 - 2012-09-20 14:51:54 UTC
Castor II wrote:
Can you teach NPCs to suicide gank too? ty


Well right now on the test server they are just killing everything and if you fight back CONCORD smacks you. So we at least tried this. Turns out most our players don't like it.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

l0rd carlos
New Order Outreach Division
CODE.
#54 - 2012-09-20 14:52:11 UTC
@DED Logi Dude
If the NPC attack the Logi, just put some Large Shield/Armor Reppers on your DPS ships. Or don't use a logi at all and spider tank all the ships.
Works in WH.
Works in PvP.
Why not in DED Complex?

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#55 - 2012-09-20 14:53:17 UTC
Simon Severasse wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Simon Severasse wrote:
Does the "attack ships of the same size as the NPC" apply to wh too?


No, I did not touch the sleepers. While it is true sleepers have the Level One AI, they have a version of it without any customization. The customization was added when we introduced Incursions.


Thank you FoxFour. Big smile


You can thank all of team Five 0 for this. We all worked hard on it.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#56 - 2012-09-20 14:54:10 UTC
MIrple wrote:
I love the changes. I hope this is just one of several to the NPC AI as it is very much in need of an overhaul. I had put up a discussion about making a few sites out in null to be more like incursion sites to break up the boorishness of running anoms but this is a great first step.

While we are talking about Brains. Can any of you comment about the brain in a box idea talked about at fan fest will we be seeing this in the winter to at a later date.


Which brain in a box idea is this? I have heard of a few...

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#57 - 2012-09-20 14:56:19 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
will FW NPCs receive special treatment?


Special in what way? Why would we?


i suppose they have now jobs like defend the beacon, don't interfere with pvp etc while still being able to kill pve fitted sigtankers.
or am i wrong?

otherwise people will just use two alts to farm them. one to pull the npcs away and one to orbit the plex. (if they switch targets, switch jobs)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#58 - 2012-09-20 14:56:35 UTC
Deathwing Reborn wrote:
Ok, now that you are making normal NPC's more interesting. When are you going to finally make something that will make things fun for ratting in Capitals? There are plenty of people that rat in carriers in Null Sec, that are fighting waves of NPCs that can be taken out in a single battleship. When are we going to start to see NPC capitals on the field or new sites in 0.0 that will make things challenging for someone in a carrier again?

The horde sites in the drone regions used to be decent because you could pop all the bunkers and have enough NPC dps to actually threaten your carrier if you wernt careful. Now its just a joke. There are many missions where NPCs are building capitals but we never see them to shoot them. And for those who will moan at grinding NPC capital HP, you could always continue with the current easy mode sites.


To be honest we need to make our PvE content more enjoyable for everyone first. While this step will hopefully help, there is a lot more work to be done. Continuing the honesty I don't think the ratting capitals are our highest priority. Hopefully we can continue to make changes that effect most everyone though and not focus to much on one segment.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#59 - 2012-09-20 14:56:53 UTC
What about sites like Dread Guristas Fleet Staging Point 3?
There is a Guristas Fleet Stronghold that launches Citadel Torpedos every 30 seconds. It will obliterate any subcap support for the capital already required to tank it if it switches targets.
Or is it expected some sites become cap only?
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#60 - 2012-09-20 15:02:03 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
MIrple wrote:
I love the changes. I hope this is just one of several to the NPC AI as it is very much in need of an overhaul. I had put up a discussion about making a few sites out in null to be more like incursion sites to break up the boorishness of running anoms but this is a great first step.

While we are talking about Brains. Can any of you comment about the brain in a box idea talked about at fan fest will we be seeing this in the winter to at a later date.


Which brain in a box idea is this? I have heard of a few...


The one that was geared at our skill set causing lag when docking/undocking and jumping through gates.