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Incoming heavy missile nerf and how you plan to handle it.
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Athena Themis
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-09-19 01:34:49 UTC
I will probably panic sell my Tengu/Caldari toon.
Jack Togenada
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-09-19 02:09:59 UTC
All of this is unfortunate. I've been training up for a tengu for over 3 months now. I spent the money to get the proper implants, got a bunch of the right missile skills to V, and I was planing to run lots of low sec missions to make things more exciting. I can't see any reasonable way to run low sec missions in a battleship. I guess I'm just going to have to retrain for a Machaiel or Nightmare and skip low sec.
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#23 - 2012-09-19 03:54:47 UTC
Jack Togenada wrote:
All of this is unfortunate. I've been training up for a tengu for over 3 months now. I spent the money to get the proper implants, got a bunch of the right missile skills to V, and I was planing to run lots of low sec missions to make things more exciting. I can't see any reasonable way to run low sec missions in a battleship. I guess I'm just going to have to retrain for a Machaiel or Nightmare and skip low sec.



Or you could just run lowsec missions still and be satisfied with your still more than sufficient 100k range and 550-600dps with HM's, or HAM fit it and use the new TE's to buff your range up to sufficient levels and probably get as much DPS as before? Pretty sure my poor mission legion will still be put to shame and left in the hanger. Cry
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-09-19 06:31:17 UTC
Nikolai Dostoyevski wrote:
Not everything needs to be the same.


That's maybe what CCP was thinking too, but from the other side : if too many people are flying the same ship, then maybe something must be done to motivate players to more variety, more creativity ;)
The problem is indeed to not nerf it to the point where no one will use it anymore.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#25 - 2012-09-19 08:38:46 UTC
Nikolai Dostoyevski wrote:
BearJews wrote:
I really don't understand the need to nerf Heavy Missiles. That system just BLOWs when you aint blobbing in Pvp.


^^^This.

Why the hell are they nerfing heavy missiles?? They're the least used in PVP as it is.

FWIW, my CNR can fire cruise missiles over 200k km, so not sure why heavy missiles that can fly 100 km need to be nerfed.. just going to make it easier for fast ships to escape the range of missiles.. but I can understand that better than a damage nerf. They're already a low damage weapon.

I will probably switch to a HAM Tengu/Drake for various missions/anomalies given that the range discrepancy wouldn't be as significant if this nerf goes into effect.


They are in fact the most used weapon in PVP, just FYI.

Furthermore, they are the highest damage medium-size long range weapon.

These changes to missiles mean that they will become more equal to other weapon systems, meaning that missile pilots will also need to actually pilot their ships, constantly swap ammo fit tracking-enhancing modules and webs at the expense of tank and pure gank.

Balance > easy-mode farming & botting = win

.
Aaewen Hrothgarson
eXtreme Co
SLYCE Pirates
#26 - 2012-09-19 11:00:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaewen Hrothgarson
According to CCP they brought HM back in line with all the other long range mid size weapons.
If this is true (and I believe it is), just see the positive side:

Your choice of viable ships just quadrupled.


PS: And yes, you will have to properly skill a battleship for a level 4 mission now. Welcome to the club.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-09-19 13:37:58 UTC
1. Move a little closer
2. launch a few more volleys.
Syn Fatelyng
Redanni
#28 - 2012-09-19 18:29:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Syn Fatelyng
Added some interesting comparisons to the first post, as provided by Takeshi Yamato. Will repost it here as well.
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
citation: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1937253#post1937253
Here are some raw numbers useful for understanding the proposed HML, beam laser and artillery changes:

250mm Railgun II with Spike:
DPS: 20
Alpha: 92
Optimal: 65 km
Falloff: 15 km
Cap/sec: -1.1
PG: 187.2
CPU: 31.5

Heavy Beam Laser II with Aurora:
DPS: 21
Alpha: 91
Optimal: 54 km
Falloff: 10 km
Cap/sec: -3.8
PG: 223.2 (previously 248.5)
CPU: 27.8

720mm Artillery II with Tremor:
DPS: 17
Alpha: 242
Optimal: 54 km
Falloff: 22 km
Cap/sec: 0
PG: 223.2 (previously 248.5)
CPU: 24

Heavy Missile Launcher II with Caldari Navy Scourge:
DPS: 23 (previously 29)
Alpha: 189 (previously 237)
Range: 63 km (previously 84)
Cap/sec: 0
PG: 94.5
CPU: 41.3

This is without any ship bonuses. My view on this is that a 25% range and a 20% dps nerf only seem ridiculous if one ignores just how much better HMLs were than other weapon systems.
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-09-20 10:33:34 UTC
It seems b*ll sh*t to me............. make the other systems better then?
Also: every1 can train for whatever ship, also Tengu.

CCP always works in the wrong direction?
Lev Arturis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-09-20 11:34:15 UTC
Flurk Hellbron wrote:
It seems b*ll sh*t to me............. make the other systems better then?
Also: every1 can train for whatever ship, also Tengu.

CCP always works in the wrong direction?



It's exactly the right direction. You should also keep in mind that the hulls getting reworked too.
Ikonia
Royal Amarr Expeditions
#31 - 2012-09-20 11:45:35 UTC
CCP is of course interested in developing the game further, but they also have to cover financial and economical demands. So all of patches, especially those which cant be understood clearly, will mostly cover this demands. The "why?" will most probably not be understood by most of us.

I dont see the point for nor against the patch - there might be something ahead that will come out, what we dont even know yet, and CP has done a good job so far, else none of us would play this game.

As heavy missiles are mostly used in PVP the impact wont be felt so dramatically by most of us. The range decrease is a bit nasty, true. In PVP there are so few long range fights since over 99% are just blobs with 20 toons sitting on a gate. You can do that bullshit with a wing of 5+ 2 million SP toons, and still will take down every ship up the size of carriers and dreadnoughts, and all these fights are clearly below 30 km range.

The players affected are those who use HM in PVE, and there it is easy to go to HAM or CM, as you can fly t4s solo with a HAC so easy that the question is only: Where was the challenge?

My second toon is on drones and HM/HAM in a HAC, my main on HAC with pulse lasers - i wont be changing anything, nor will i notice the nerf at all.

No impact on PVP at all, or easy to compensate by making another free toon for your blobs.
Poor PVE with HM is all i can say: less range, less dmg, more time, less income.
The rest of us will most probably /shrug.
Ginger Barbarella
#32 - 2012-09-20 17:30:48 UTC
Athena Themis wrote:
I will probably panic sell my Tengu/Caldari toon.


Nice... P

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#33 - 2012-09-20 18:08:16 UTC
Melina Lin wrote:
Sergi Arro wrote:
A 20% damage reduction is pretty significant.

Yes it is and they will nerf the T3 hull too. They will nerf it hard. Lol

Quoting CCP Ytterbium: " Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line."

Entertaining times ahead.


Og yes. When the answer to everything is 'Use a Tengu', something is out of whack.
Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-09-20 18:22:22 UTC
The numbers speak for themselves. It was needed. The Tengu and Drake have been the optimal (and almost only) choice for far far to long in PvE.

On a more positive note, I decided to do t2 HAM's before HML's :D

I lied :o
Ishen Villone
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-09-20 18:29:53 UTC
I will adjust fitting on my Tengu to cram on an extra ballistic control to offset a little of the DPS nerf. Range wont be an issue, it's still plenty long and my Tengu does like 700m/s on afterburner.

I might train up HAMs.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#36 - 2012-09-20 19:58:50 UTC
Nikolai Dostoyevski wrote:
FWIW, my CNR can fire cruise missiles over 200k km, so not sure why heavy missiles that can fly 100 km need to be nerfed.. just going to make it easier for fast ships to escape the range of missiles.. but I can understand that better than a damage nerf. They're already a low damage weapon.

I wouldn't be surprised if cruise missiles were nerfed. Remember, they are only up to cruisers at the moment.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#37 - 2012-09-20 22:14:17 UTC
Buffing other systems to match HML performance leads to huge power creep.

Slap on some hams and swap your painters for Tracking comps and you have decent range decent dps and decent damage application to most if not all ship classes.

GET OVER IT and adapt or die.......or rage quit and give me yer stuffz!!

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Hav0cide
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#38 - 2012-09-21 10:27:48 UTC
1. Even with nerf range won't really be an issue if 63km is the base well rats in my exploration rarely go above 50km.
2. 500/600 DPS is plenty, get some patience for the extra couple of volleys.
3. Upgrade. I sense a rise in BCU prices on all officer/(maybe faction) BCU's as buying that extra DPS will be worth it for some.
4. Expecting more officer/faction tengus appearing on billboards.

The Sadistic Clowns - Recruiting new players who want to learn PVP/PVE/Exploration. Join our channel - 'Clowns recruits'
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-09-21 19:47:33 UTC
lrn2gunnery people...

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#40 - 2012-09-23 18:27:52 UTC
BearJews wrote:
I really don't understand the need to nerf Heavy Missiles. That system just BLOWs when you aint blobbing in Pvp.


And you hit the nail on the head without even trying.

The leet pvpers, the ones that are so leet the only way they could die was to be blobbed by drakes, called for the nerf.

And Arenanet listened.

Lol see what I did there?

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it