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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Shrrrg
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#361 - 2012-09-18 17:59:17 UTC
I have some major problems with the whole "Td can affect anything".
Not only that you have now your module for everything but how does the td or tc or te affect missiles?
Is every missile customly build in your ship and a td affect how much is build in?

i mean the lore is maybe not that important but that is a harder kick in the face of the lore than "DD can only target capitals".

In addition i would say that 20% dmg nerf are way to hard, but it's okay with these changes i will just fly my ham drake with 440 dps at 40km. Ham nerf incoming!
Esteban Dragonovic
Saidusairos Nebula Concern
#362 - 2012-09-18 18:00:42 UTC
Why does CCP hate my nighthawk? What did it ever do to you? D:
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#363 - 2012-09-18 18:00:59 UTC
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#364 - 2012-09-18 18:01:47 UTC
DeBingJos wrote:
Ok, the cane got a nerf and it deserved it.

But why does the Drake get a buff? (less shields, more gank)

Drakes will be even more op than now...

/me is sad


Cane got nerfed when ASB came out. Minus a drake a solo cane pilot had a chance in a fight, than the ASB came out. This is just pissing on it's grave. Glad I switched to missiles when I realized the cane was dead, oh wait I better read the rest of this post.





But don't worry if you have a bunch of canes you just fit 720s and do some high sec ganking, untill you can fit a proper Tornado.

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#365 - 2012-09-18 18:01:51 UTC
Esteban Dragonovic wrote:
Why does CCP hate my nighthawk? What did it ever do to you? D:


Better question really is why does CCP hate Caldari?
Athena Themis
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#366 - 2012-09-18 18:02:01 UTC
Ensign X wrote:
The makers of Ben and Jerry Ice Cream became aware that their Chunky Monkey brand of Ice Cream was outselling all their other flavours. It seemed everybody wanted to eat Chunky Monkey because it was so delicious. But Ben and Jerry wanted their other brands to be just as good as Chunky Monkey so that everybody could enjoy them. So Ben and Jerry went and took a **** in their next batch of Chunky Monkey. When asked why would they do this, they answered:

"It was just so much easier to make Chunky Monkey taste like **** than to make the other flavours taste better."

CCP went to the Ben and Jerry School of Product Design.


LOL sums up this nerf perfectly.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#367 - 2012-09-18 18:04:44 UTC
Ensign X wrote:
Roime wrote:
ITT people who don't realize that HMLs are still the best medium sized long range weapons.



With the plethora of evidence you've submitted to support this claim, I don't know how we could ever have doubted this. Thank you, Roime, for helping us all see the clear light of day. Roll


Open EFT or pyfa, test it out for yourself.

HMLs currently not only have almost 30% higher base damage, they also hit at 100% damage every time against BCs and larger, moving or not.

Also, chance to hit. Did you know that in addition to transversal, sig, falloff and vulnerability to TDs, turrets are rolled against a random number on every hit? Turrets can miss, how cool is that!

Now missiles have equal range and damage, but they still hit every single time.

So ITT "boohoo, my medium-sized LR weapon system is not completely and utterly insanely OP anymore"

.
Rita May
State War Academy
Caldari State
#368 - 2012-09-18 18:05:14 UTC
about that range nerv...
nobody wrote something about the one small little problem all missle based weapons share:
there is NO falloff, if your target is just one little millimeter out of range you're doing how much dmg?
Right: Zero.

if it is CCPs intention to bring weapon systems "inline" please consider an appropriate change to guns that have the shocking abillity to hit things outside of their "optimal"...

i still use that nighthawk now and then - but after these changes i can't think of anything usefull i could fly it for besides making it a somewhat expensive hauler with a 700m3 cargobay.

the longer i think about these changes the more they aggravate me Sad

cu
Aaron Greil
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#369 - 2012-09-18 18:05:33 UTC
Athena Themis wrote:
Ensign X wrote:
The makers of Ben and Jerry Ice Cream became aware that their Chunky Monkey brand of Ice Cream was outselling all their other flavours. It seemed everybody wanted to eat Chunky Monkey because it was so delicious. But Ben and Jerry wanted their other brands to be just as good as Chunky Monkey so that everybody could enjoy them. So Ben and Jerry went and took a **** in their next batch of Chunky Monkey. When asked why would they do this, they answered:

"It was just so much easier to make Chunky Monkey taste like **** than to make the other flavours taste better."

CCP went to the Ben and Jerry School of Product Design.


LOL sums up this nerf perfectly.



pfft, yeah if the icecream flavors were in an arena trying to kill each other gladiator style.

QQ my OP ships aren't OP anymore QQ
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#370 - 2012-09-18 18:05:43 UTC
Athena Themis wrote:
Ensign X wrote:
The makers of Ben and Jerry Ice Cream became aware that their Chunky Monkey brand of Ice Cream was outselling all their other flavours. It seemed everybody wanted to eat Chunky Monkey because it was so delicious. But Ben and Jerry wanted their other brands to be just as good as Chunky Monkey so that everybody could enjoy them. So Ben and Jerry went and took a **** in their next batch of Chunky Monkey. When asked why would they do this, they answered:

"It was just so much easier to make Chunky Monkey taste like **** than to make the other flavours taste better."

CCP went to the Ben and Jerry School of Product Design.


LOL sums up this nerf perfectly.


Actually it doesn't.

I'm glad CCP didn't go the powercreep way and just made everything better.
tom trade valine
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#371 - 2012-09-18 18:06:39 UTC
Let me guess someone ran to CCP and started complaing about drakes being OP so there solution was to nerf Heavy missiles across the board to bring this in line. If ccp is really this stupid to contiue this style of what they call balanceing then when there game goes bust they can only blame them selfs. Some things are going to be OP but it dosent make them near unstopable so this continueing to rebalance of everythig to make everyone have the same whatever is getting way over done
Alara IonStorm
#372 - 2012-09-18 18:06:56 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:

Yes, exactly. Many thanks for providing this. As you can see in the graph, heavy missiles pretty much dominate this range class of weapons, with the only weapons system providing any advantage at all being railguns on a Ferox - and at a huge DPS hit to achieve this.

If you run the same graph after the changes Fozzie is proposing, you will see that there are now actual advantages to using other weapons besides HML at these ranges.

Which other Medium Range Weapons Systems do you think will replace them.

I will give you a hint, it starts with none and ends with none. Not gonna see anymore LOL Medium Beams or LOL Medium Rails, maybe a few 720mm Whelp Boats but only if they have the vaunted double DPS Bonus.

So how does nerfing the good weapons system so none of them are good help EVE Hans. Why can we not see buffs to medium weapons and bonuses so Ferox's, Harbingers and Canes are seen as much as Drakes and keep the Drake as a viable fleet option instead of this Death to Drakes out of spite thing and every other Cruiser that uses Heavy Missiles along with it.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#373 - 2012-09-18 18:07:48 UTC
Y'know, on the plus side I will never have to worry about facing a Drake with my Merlin ever again. Just have to pop 5 light drones and I'm set.

HML Drake? LOL I can tank your crap damage.

HAM Drake? LOL your explosion radius and velocity can't touch me.

Doesn't matter what range I come in at. I can beeline straight at the Drake without a worry at all. Could never do that against an Arty Cane, Beam Harbie, or Rail Boat. And by the looks of it, even Precision missiles won't be to much of a threat.

Truly, this is gonna be a golden age of comedy killmails.
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#374 - 2012-09-18 18:08:03 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 30%
-Base velocity increased by 6.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.


Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time (with optimal range script)
Explosion radius and explosion velocity (with tracking speed script)
-Make TDs affect Missiles
Tracking speed disruption script lowers explosion velocity and increases explosion radius
Optimal range disruption script lowers flight time

This will make missiles obsolete.
Turrets are way better.
Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#375 - 2012-09-18 18:08:21 UTC
I too think that the heavy missile nerf is a bit excessive. Yeah, they did need a nerf and all these changes should make things interesting but maybe start with a -10% damage first and see how it goes? I don't think we want another vanguard-like mess for overnerfing things.

This post was rated "C" for capsuleer.
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#376 - 2012-09-18 18:10:40 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Y'know, on the plus side I will never have to worry about facing a Drake with my Merlin ever again. Just have to pop 5 light drones and I'm set.

HML Drake? LOL I can tank your crap damage.

HAM Drake? LOL your explosion radius and velocity can't touch me.

Doesn't matter what range I come in at. I can beeline straight at the Drake without a worry at all. Could never do that against an Arty Cane, Beam Harbie, or Rail Boat. And by the looks of it, even Precision missiles won't be to much of a threat.

Truly, this is gonna be a golden age of comedy killmails.


My new bait drake stuffed with T2 missiles and tracking mods is waiting for you.
Lance Shrike
Navigators Group Inc.
#377 - 2012-09-18 18:11:02 UTC
I predict a Burn Jita "Drake Edition" event soon.

This nerf is horrible, you should feel bad CCP.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#378 - 2012-09-18 18:12:02 UTC
darius mclever wrote:



To some extend. most of the time you will be using the bonused missiles.




which is why a bunch of ships are loosing the kin damage bonus and getting a base damage bonus or a rate of fire bonus...

which means you can select any damage type you want...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
CraftyCroc
Fraternity Alliance Please Ignore
#379 - 2012-09-18 18:14:17 UTC
Please fix ECM
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#380 - 2012-09-18 18:15:46 UTC
I'm glad ccp mixes things up from time to time and whatever they do I'll adapt, but I will say this: This HML change seems like a classic case of CCP over-nerf.

I've seen it too many times in EVE. They made upgradeable systems, then (despite feedback fro the start saying that upgradeable systems might make null sec TOO "even", which they ignored), they nerfed the upgrade scheme, making much of null worthless, which they then came back and fixed by buffing the anomalies...to the point where Titans could make 3-400 mil an hour in forsaken hubs, which they then fixed by nerfing Titans...which turned titans into glorified null sec fleet taxis and nothing else..

It happens with incursions , over nerfing them just to turn around and somewhat un-nerf them. Over and over again we've seen it.

I ask simply, from an efficiency stand point, wouldn't it make more sense to make small incremental changes and see how they pans out? To many nerfs at once simply creates "unintended consequences" (like in this case, you end up nerfing missiles ships that already suck, because the Drake is to good a blob ship).

Because Firewalls and missile travel time exists, bringing HMLs in line with other medium ship weapons don't mean harmony and balance in fleet fights, it means drakes go from over-used to not-used and other caldari missile ships join the Eagle on the "don't -not-use-ever" shelf.

It's too much. It's sensor Dampeners all over again (for those who don't know what a sensor damp is because you've never seen one used, visit eve-wiki lol).