These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
arbalesttom
State War Academy
Caldari State
#101 - 2012-09-18 14:52:32 UTC
Ehhhh wait...i thought the Drake was the problem...not heavy missiles Ugh WTG :ccp:
Steelshine
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#102 - 2012-09-18 14:54:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Steelshine
Bagehi wrote:
Steelshine wrote:
RIP Heavy Missiles, you now get to go to that special place where hybrids lived for so many years. Maybe you'll be useful again in 2016


Perhaps we can expect to see some variety in fleet compositions now. Less "oh look, another drake gang" or "hey look, a tengu gang" is a good thing in my book.


I agree with this, personally between my main and alt I have Large Hybrid, Projectile, and Laser V, excited to get to use some more of them.

Just concerned about the newbros across eve, the HML + drake has been a great low SP workhorse. Perhaps too good. These numbers now look like an execution though, not a reduction in general effectiveness.
Terrorina
#103 - 2012-09-18 14:55:01 UTC
Seriously nerfing HML's as a whole is way too excessive. What about us null-sec ratters who have come to rely on the Tengu because it is the only somewhat effective ship to make money while the low-high sec guys get to play FW and incursions for big isks.

I agree Drakes have become too OP for a BC ship and they should have their bonus's reduced or changed accordingly but nerfing HML's entirely is like chopping off an arm because of a broken finger.

If you're going to change them anyway, at least for the love of god give us null-sec grunts a way to make some decent money. You've already nerfed tech, which is fine.. but you didn't replace it with a bottom up way for us grunts to make money (and please don't say sigs, i'm not flying around for hours in the hopes to find a decent site and then hoping a ton of other people haven't found it first in the hopes that I have a slim chance of getting a module that is worth something if I can survive hauling it to Jita).
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2012-09-18 14:55:01 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Pisov viet wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 30%
-Base velocity increased by 6.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.

Is that only heavy missiles, or also heavy assault missiles?


Just heavy missiles.


and what about the heavy assault missile? doesn't it need a buff? noone uses them...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard
#105 - 2012-09-18 14:55:11 UTC
Huurraaaa!!!!
Lord MuffloN
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#106 - 2012-09-18 14:55:57 UTC
For everyone comparing blasters to heavy missiles, you're dead wrong and they should be compared to HAM's.
Malleus Sicarius
FinFleet
Northern Coalition.
#107 - 2012-09-18 14:56:11 UTC
lol, keep nerfing those damn useless ships maybe goons will refit to other kinds of fleet doctrine ships ..... YOU TAKING AWAY GOONS TOYS, REALLY?

THEY ALLREADY STARTED CRYING ON STATE OF GOONION BOUT THIS NERF :))))


Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#108 - 2012-09-18 14:56:48 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Pisov viet wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 30%
-Base velocity increased by 6.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.

Is that only heavy missiles, or also heavy assault missiles?


Just heavy missiles.


and what about the heavy assault missile? doesn't it need a buff? noone uses them...

....because HML's were too awesome, not because HAMS were bad.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Sebastian Hoch
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#109 - 2012-09-18 14:57:01 UTC
NiGhTTraX wrote:
The current Drake with 7x T2 HML launchers and 2x T2 BCU, firing T1 Scourge Heavy Missiles outputs 321 DPS.
With 7x T2 HAM launchers and 2x T2 BCU, firing Scourge outputs 401 DPS.

The Hurricane with 6x T2 720mm Artys and 2x T2 Gyrostabs with EMP outputs 371 DPS.
The Hurricane with 6x T2 425mm Autocannons and 2x T2 Gyrostabs with EMP outputs 477 DPS.

The new Drake will only have 0.8 x 321 = 257 DPS at a 25% lower range or 320 DPS with HAMs. It becomes the shittiest battlecruiser in terms of DPS. And if you nerf it further by reducing its tank, well.... Oh and now they can be tracking disrupted? Goodbye solo missile platforms!

CCP Frozie wrote:
The upshot is that fitting a full rack of 720s with a MWD and LSE and full mids and lows will require a RCUII and either an ACR or PG implant. Also fitting a standard shield autocane with neuts and LSE will require dropping a few guns down to 220mm.


No other high tier battlecruiser requires implants or gun downgrading to fulfill its intended purpose. These decisions seem terrible on paper imho.


Don't forget missile boats still have their native disadvantages of travel time to apply dps and unique vulnerability to firewall defenses. Even if missile boats are made equal in damage and range, they would already have issues in comparison.
Sirane Elrek
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2012-09-18 14:57:44 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Earn those tech moons brother. Well at least until they are also nerfed. P

i see what you did there
DeadDuck
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#111 - 2012-09-18 14:58:17 UTC
So HAM's continue to be crap and the Sacrilege useless... X
Cravenel
Perkone
Caldari State
#112 - 2012-09-18 14:58:32 UTC
how is this an expansion... this is just another irrelevant, arbitrary change to game mechanics.

Fleets will switch to yet another optimum ship, people who can fly any ship will just buy another one and the only people who will see the difference in their game experience will be new player who were unaware that choosing Caldari as your start race is a terrible mistake.
StevieTopSiders
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#113 - 2012-09-18 14:59:41 UTC
Daneel Trevize wrote:
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

I lived to see the day!


**** YEAH WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP

This is literally the best change ever.

CCP saving the game.
Shiroh Yatamii
Alexylva Paradox
#114 - 2012-09-18 15:00:04 UTC
All of what CCP seems to have been doing lately indicates an implicit drone boat buff. Drones can get the same-ish range you desire with HMLs if you fit for it. And have you tried TDing a single drone? Bet you'll feel smart after you try that. But we'll see.
Alara IonStorm
#115 - 2012-09-18 15:00:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Hannott Thanos wrote:

....because HML's were too awesome, not because HAMS were bad.

No it was because HAM's were bad along with Medium Beams and Rails and the ships they go on.

Cutting this basically means the only LR Medium Weapon boat that is semi viable is the Cane with its Double Dmg Bonus.

They should not be nerfing the Drakes Dmg by 20% they should be fixing LR Medium Guns so they don't require a double Dmg bonus like on the Cane and can actually be used on Cruisers and Battlecruisers.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#116 - 2012-09-18 15:01:08 UTC
Heavy missile damage nerf makes sense to me. The difference in damage between the HML and HAMs has always seemed too slight in my opinion, especially when combined with the Drake hull.

Drakes can kick out 400+ raw dps at 85kms and still fit a tank using HMLs at present.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Blawrf McTaggart
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#117 - 2012-09-18 15:02:23 UTC
I don't really understand why CCP continue to do this "pendulum" style of balancing. Make something overpowered -> useless -> overpowered -> useless.
Slighet
Siempre Muerto
#118 - 2012-09-18 15:02:42 UTC
Yeah have to chime in and agree that that HML nerf is excessive. Agree with a bit of a range nerf (though do remember there's no falloff), but HML dps is already fairly anemic, do they really need slapping so hard? Especially as there's already the delayed application of DPS compared to turret weapons.

If it's aimed at the Drake, which I presume it is, isn't the problem more about its tank and slot layout?
Blawrf McTaggart
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#119 - 2012-09-18 15:03:06 UTC
Wacktopia wrote:
Heavy missile damage nerf makes sense to me. The difference in damage between the HML and HAMs has always seemed too slight in my opinion, especially when combined with the Drake hull.

Drakes can kick out 400+ raw dps at 85kms and still fit a tank using HMLs at present.


what would you know you're in empire
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#120 - 2012-09-18 15:03:14 UTC
The current proposals for missile changes as they stand fix a lot of what drake blobs cause in null sec, which is understandable, but it just makes missile boats so much worse in small scale PvP, and this is the reason people think some of the nerfs are too much. Nerfing the HM damage so much will make drake fleets less useful, but on the small scale, you can no longer do anything useful in any HM boats. The nano drake gang becomes horrible, Cerbs get even worse, nighthawks get even worse, caracal is thrown right back down to where it currently is, and so on. Just because these changes help out huge null sec blobs to use more than drakes doesnt fix it for everyone else. Clearly quite a few people have issues with the damage nerf so it's reasonable to decrease it at least. (once again, 10% instead of 20%, while buffing HAM damage, would be optimal)

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us