Player Features and Ideas Discussion

It seems that Webs > TPs
well at least this is the general opinion.

reference 1:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage
Looking at the formula at least initially it seems TP should have the same effect as web on chance to hit.
web reduces the transversal speed.
TP increases the target signature radius.

However 50% reduction in transversal is more effective than 50% increase in signature radius
(Do the maths yourself if you don't believe me)
The square term just makes this different much bigger.
Using a simple example:
base speed 446
range 1000
tracking 0.362
turret signature 40
target signature 34
Base change to hit: 0.233
with 50% reduction in speed: 0.694
with 50% increase in signature: 0.523
showing speed reduction to be around 32% more effective on change to hit in this small example.

Next should be noted that a tech2 webifier gives 60% reduction in speed
While a tech 2 Target Painter (with max skills) gives only 37.5% increase in signature radius

With missiles the effect are somewhat different:
With web the target is moving slowly so the effect of explosion velocity vs speed is reduced.
With TP the target is bigger so the effect of explosion radius vs size is reduced.
However in both cases this can have zero effect:
If the target is already smaller than explosion radius TP will help 0.
If the target is already slower than explosion velocity web will help 0.

If you are shooting a small target with a big gun there is a theoretical point where the TP might be of more value than the Web.
But this is only if the transversal of the target vs range is already such that your gun can sufficiently track the target.

Now both of these modules get stacking penalties.
So in theory after applying say 3 webs it should then be better to apply a TP rather than a 4th web.
This is somewhat true on the 4th+ module. Which means sprinkling your fleet with some TPs have some merit.

This is off course not the whole truth.

TP affects are immediate while with webs it takes a certain time to slow down the target.
TP affect is consistent while if the target is already standing still or it is moving in a non-transverse manner the web have no effect.
Although it is possible to get webs working at around 50km normally webs are a 10km ranged module while TPs are easily effective at 50km and are even somewhat effective at ranges beyond that. (so generally TPs have a range advantage)
TPs uses less CPU to fit than webs
TPs uses more capacitor to run than webs.

TPs makes the rest of your fleet lock the target faster!

But speed reduction of web means:
1. possible target can not escape
2. allows you more range control
3. allows your fleet buddies to more easily get in range to apply damage

I might've missed something here or have something wrong. Let me know and I will correct it.

2 other references:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0910/eve-tracking101.swf
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/knof/eve_missiles.swf

So is this balanced?
This is a difficult question to answer and I think in terms of game design the modules are supposed to be different and not
overlap so much.

It seems that TPs are more specialized than webs. They are more useful in fleets, especially larger and long range fleets.
While webs are generally more useful initially.

---

Now the new ship balance for the Bellicose is fine.
Its a ship with a bonus to Target painting. Which is good but has relative specialized usage.
In most fleet scenarios where this might be useful one might argue the bellicose is not strong enough to be useful,
its defence becomes the fact that it might be ignored.

There are more room for improvement around Recon Ships:
These ships have a split bonus for both web and TP.
Now almost nobody would argue that these ships are weak or ineffective.
Just that in 95% of all cases I believe TPs are ignored in favour of ranged webs.

Also TPs have a range bonus over webs but this is not enough to be effective for sniper fleets.

My suggestion is two fold then for further development to CCP:

1. scripts for Target Painters
one script to make the TP more effective at the cost of range/falloff
one script to give the TP more range/falloff at the cost of more capacitor usage
This will make Target painters more versatile to use.

2. For future development consider more specialized recon/EWAR ships.
This can be either as additional tech2 ships or more tech3 subsystems or even more tech1 ships. Doesn't matter but there is room for:
for example:
a. The loki can do with a subsystem that increases the range and effectiveness of target painters
b. tier 2 recon ships that is once again more specialized, splitting the functionality of the current recon ships.
for minmatar: 2 ships, one for webbing and one for target painting
for amarr: 1 for neuting and 1 for tracking disruption
for gallente: 1 for disruption/scambling and 1 for sensor dampening
for caldari : 1 for ECM and 1 for projected ECCM? (I don't have a solution for caldari here)
My suggestion would be to make these new ships battlecruiser sized. Giving them the increased EHP to be valid in larger
fleets but reduced speed and agility therefore they can not replace the functionality of the current recon ships. (As well as making them much more expensive)

I leave the rest up to the capable designers and developers at CCP :)

I'm sure this post will be ignored like all other suggestions in this forum, but hey it was fun thinking about this.