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ISK for real money...

Author
Torthur Thellere
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-10-14 07:12:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Torthur Thellere
Hi there,

I've started to play Eve few days ago, and I love it!
It's huge, has no limits and the audio/visual is nice.

So I decided to subscribe.

But then I've started to have doubts. As far, as I know you can buy PLEX for real money and then sell it for ISK. Isn't that spoiling the game economy? I've some bad experiences with other MMO's with that solution. Prices started to get crazy in short time.

Please tell me, that I'm wrong...:)

P.S.
And what the AUR currency is?
Haeri
Club Bear
#2 - 2011-10-14 07:56:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Haeri
The short answer is No, it didn't spoil the EVE economy and it won't. Why? In short, the economy is (almost) completely player-driven. If you put a PLEX on the market and someone buys it from you and then uses it to add game time to their account, all that has happened is that isk has been switched around (with some of it being taken out of the game due to taxes and fees). It's a way for players with spare RL money to get some extra isk so that they don't have to spend as much time making isk, and it's a way for people with spare isk to save some RL money by using their isk to pay for more game time.

AUR is a currency created by destroying a PLEX that is used in the NeX store to buy vanity items for your avatar.

YouTube: HaeriEVE  |  Twitter: @Haeri_EVE  |  Club Bear

malaire
#3 - 2011-10-14 08:08:41 UTC
Also, because of supply & demand it is not possible to get infinite amount of ISK by selling PLEX. PLEX is only worth what others are willing to pay for it, and if many players start buying a lot of PLEX with real money and selling them for ISK, price of PLEX in ISK will drop because supply is greater than demand. (This has happened few times when CCP made PLEX-ads which caused more PLEX to be bought with real money.)

About AUR: AUR is separate ingame currency for NeX (Noble Exchange) shop which sells vanity items like clothes. You can exchange 1 PLEX for 3500 AUR. Price of items varies from 1000 AUR to 12000 AUR, so for new players they are far too expensive to even consider buying. Also, CCP is going to give some free AUR soon to all accounts (3rd and 4th reward from http://www.eveisreal.net/#!/sharing-rewards/) so if you do want something from NeX you might want to wait for that.

Note: I don't know if that free AUR is given also to trial accounts or only to paying accounts.

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else

Torthur Thellere
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-10-14 08:32:48 UTC
Thank you very much for a quick response.

Now I can see, that there's no threat from PLEX.
Definitely joining :)
Aston Bradley
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-10-14 09:47:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Aston Bradley
Torthur Thellere wrote:
Thank you very much for a quick response.

Now I can see, that there's no threat from PLEX.
Definitely joining :)


When the supply exceeds demand Arrow Sells drop Arrow Suppliers ajust the prices to increase sells Arrow the market ajusts the prices of PLEX Arrow PLEX becomes less profitable. It's a natural barrier that prevents abuse.

You not buying isk directly from CCP, you are selling the plex to a player that as a need for it. So you can't just buy thousands of plex and become Eve's top billionaire.

At the very best selling plex for isks will make ship losses more managable. 350M might look like much, but once you start loosing T1 BS or T2's that can evaporate very quickly.

[i]FiS should be the priority, but WiS should not be burried!

Don't encourage CCP to make empty promises or Incarna will happen again![/i]

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#6 - 2011-10-14 11:42:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jennifer Starling
Torthur Thellere wrote:
Hi there,

I've started to play Eve few days ago, and I love it!
It's huge, has no limits and the audio/visual is nice.

So I decided to subscribe.

But then I've started to have doubts. As far, as I know you can buy PLEX for real money and then sell it for ISK. Isn't that spoiling the game economy? I've some bad experiences with other MMO's with that solution. Prices started to get crazy in short time.

Please tell me, that I'm wrong...:)

P.S.
And what the AUR currency is?

The thing is that you buy ISK from other players, it's not magically spawning from anywhere.
That said, I don't believe the impact is that big as in some other games. There's some corps/alliances that fund their capital fleets with plex and there's a lot of players that play for free by botting a lot of ISK together and buying plex from other players.

Another thing is that some rich players sell a lot of PLEX and buy themselves a high SkillPoint character, which is also legalized. That way they can buy themselves characters with a few years worth of skilltraining while poor players or those who don't feel investing a few 1000s of $ have to wait a few years.

In the end I'm not overly happy with plex and the legalisation of ISK and character selling for (the gametime equivalent of) RL money but generally I think EVE players seem to like it just because it's "between players".
malaire
#7 - 2011-10-14 11:53:46 UTC
Slightly offtopic, but since this is trial players section I want to add that buying or selling ISK for real money is against game rules and will get you into trouble.

Only exception to this is buying PLEX for real money and selling it for ISK which is what this discussion is about.

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else

Torthur Thellere
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-10-14 12:23:33 UTC
I'm going to subscribe anyway, but...

Jennifer Starling wrote:

The thing is that you buy ISK from other players, it's not magically spawning from anywhere.
That said, I don't believe the impact is that big as in some other games. There's some corps/alliances that fund their capital fleets with plex and there's a lot of players that play for free by botting a lot of ISK together and buying plex from other players.


ISK is gathered by the hard work right? Mining, trading, engineering etc. It requires time. If you can earn lot of ISK in very short time it loses its value. When ISK value is dropping, prices are growing. Inflation.
I've quit previous game because of that. Prices was insane... There was a time when you want to equip yourself, you was practically forced to buy for $ "diamonds" and sell it for game gold. Maybe different story.

Jennifer Starling wrote:

Another thing is that some rich players sell a lot of PLEX and buy themselves a high SkillPoint character, which is also legalized. That way they can buy themselves characters with a few years worth of skilltraining while poor players or those who don't feel investing a few 1000s of $ have to wait a few years.


^^

malaire
#9 - 2011-10-14 12:41:59 UTC  |  Edited by: malaire
Torthur Thellere wrote:
ISK is gathered by the hard work right? Mining, trading, engineering etc. It requires time. If you can earn lot of ISK in very short time it loses its value. When ISK value is dropping, prices are growing. Inflation.
I've quit previous game because of that. Prices was insane... There was a time when you want to equip yourself, you was practically forced to buy for $ "diamonds" and sell it for game gold. Maybe different story.

There are ways to earn a lot of ISK in short time. Selling PLEX is just one example, many scams are also extremely effective. But none of these changes the value of ISK since they just move ISK around and do not inject any new ISK into game.

It could be argued that some forms of botting (note: botting is against game rules) might be affecting value of ISK since they actually are injecting ISK into EVE, e.g. killing NPC pirates for bounties.

Also, if you are concerned about inflation, you could read price index dev blogs which are published regularly.
Latest is price indices - august 2011 (and I don't see any inflation there.)

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else

Torthur Thellere
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-10-14 12:50:04 UTC
malaire wrote:

There are ways to earn a lot of ISK in short time. Selling PLEX is just one example, many scams are also extremely effective. But none of these changes the value of ISK since they just move ISK around and do not inject any new ISK into game.

It could be argued that some forms of botting (note: botting is against game rules) might be affecting value of ISK since they actually are injecting ISK into EVE, e.g. killing NPC pirates for bounties.

Also, if you are concerned about inflation, you could read price index dev blogs which are published regularly.
Latest is price indices - august 2011 (and I don't see any inflation there.)


I think you're right.

Just a quick thoughts of mine.
malaire
#11 - 2011-10-14 13:08:05 UTC
And lastly, there is real economist working for CCP to analyze ingame market. So if there would happen to be serious inflation in EVE, I'm sure he would alert CCP to do something about it. Big smile

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#12 - 2011-10-14 13:25:01 UTC
malaire wrote:
And lastly, there is real economist working for CCP to analyze ingame market. So if there would happen to be serious inflation in EVE, I'm sure he would alert CCP to do something about it. Big smile

Well what wil they do one might wonder ...

You do realize that if CCP decides to buy PLEX off the market by created ISK (thus increasing PLEX prices) and destroy them, they earn an extra $15 for each PLEX removed that way?
gfldex
#13 - 2011-10-15 06:02:24 UTC
Torthur Thellere wrote:
When ISK value is dropping, prices are growing. Inflation.


For any complex question there is a simple answer. And that answer is wrong.

If it would be so easy, why is there no inflation in the US with all those $$$ printed?

In EVE there are alternatives to print ISK (yes you can actually do that, the ink is kinda time consuming tho). And those alternatives are way more fun (to the hunter, they pray thinks different ofc). For any minute spend shooting NPCs there are 5 minutes of, well, mostly camping. But you can't fight without a good camp, can you?

There are further huge ISK sinks in the game. The return of investment on most BPOs is a *beep*ing joke. Any char will spend ISK on skillbooks. Have a look at the prices for the carrier skills.

And the most important factor is that there are plenty of idiots who spend their whole day in a belt. No ink there to be seen. But yet, they have to feed the sinks. Quite a lot of those quite the game, locking the goods away they spend so much time to get. One of those goods can even be ISK.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.

gfldex
#14 - 2011-10-15 06:04:26 UTC
Jennifer Starling wrote:
You do realize that if CCP decides to buy PLEX off the market by created ISK (thus increasing PLEX prices) and destroy them, they earn an extra $15 for each PLEX removed that way?


Shhhhh, not so loud honey, you gonna get yourself banned!

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.

Velicitia
XS Tech
#15 - 2011-10-15 17:32:38 UTC
gfldex wrote:
Jennifer Starling wrote:
You do realize that if CCP decides to buy PLEX off the market by created ISK (thus increasing PLEX prices) and destroy them, they earn an extra $15 for each PLEX removed that way?


Shhhhh, not so loud honey, you gonna get yourself banned!



Or they just call it AURUM...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Lukriss
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2011-10-15 20:55:09 UTC
Jennifer Starling wrote:
malaire wrote:
And lastly, there is real economist working for CCP to analyze ingame market. So if there would happen to be serious inflation in EVE, I'm sure he would alert CCP to do something about it. Big smile

Well what wil they do one might wonder ...

You do realize that if CCP decides to buy PLEX off the market by created ISK (thus increasing PLEX prices) and destroy them, they earn an extra $15 for each PLEX removed that way?


Yes, but they would also WRECK the eve economy, so much ******* isk getting put into the economy.
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#17 - 2011-10-15 22:27:23 UTC
Lukriss wrote:
Jennifer Starling wrote:
malaire wrote:
And lastly, there is real economist working for CCP to analyze ingame market. So if there would happen to be serious inflation in EVE, I'm sure he would alert CCP to do something about it. Big smile

Well what wil they do one might wonder ...

You do realize that if CCP decides to buy PLEX off the market by created ISK (thus increasing PLEX prices) and destroy them, they earn an extra $15 for each PLEX removed that way?


Yes, but they would also WRECK the eve economy, so much ******* isk getting put into the economy.

I wonder if it's noticable when it's a few dozen a day. So many people making billions of ISK with ratting, missions, incursions, insurances .. there's trillions of ISK spawning into the game every month.
Rhianna Ghost
Ghost Industries Inc.
#18 - 2011-10-16 11:18:59 UTC
Jennifer Starling wrote:
Lukriss wrote:
Jennifer Starling wrote:
malaire wrote:
And lastly, there is real economist working for CCP to analyze ingame market. So if there would happen to be serious inflation in EVE, I'm sure he would alert CCP to do something about it. Big smile

Well what wil they do one might wonder ...

You do realize that if CCP decides to buy PLEX off the market by created ISK (thus increasing PLEX prices) and destroy them, they earn an extra $15 for each PLEX removed that way?


Yes, but they would also WRECK the eve economy, so much ******* isk getting put into the economy.

I wonder if it's noticable when it's a few dozen a day. So many people making billions of ISK with ratting, missions, incursions, insurances .. there's trillions of ISK spawning into the game every month.


But the return of a few dozen a week will propably not big enough for CCP to risk the giant player uproar should it become public. Or so I hope...
Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-11-22 20:45:06 UTC
Jennifer Starling wrote:
Lukriss wrote:
Jennifer Starling wrote:
malaire wrote:
And lastly, there is real economist working for CCP to analyze ingame market. So if there would happen to be serious inflation in EVE, I'm sure he would alert CCP to do something about it. Big smile

Well what wil they do one might wonder ...

You do realize that if CCP decides to buy PLEX off the market by created ISK (thus increasing PLEX prices) and destroy them, they earn an extra $15 for each PLEX removed that way?


Yes, but they would also WRECK the eve economy, so much ******* isk getting put into the economy.

I wonder if it's noticable when it's a few dozen a day. So many people making billions of ISK with ratting, missions, incursions, insurances .. there's trillions of ISK spawning into the game every month.


Of course, there are also isk being destroyed every month. Ships and fittings that are destroyed in PVE and PVP are isk that are vaporized. They're gone and they're not coming back into the game economy.

I guess the only isk that are being created (as opposed to changing hands between players) are the isk from mining. Wait, and maybe agent rewards for completing missions. I suppose agent rewards and bounty prizes are isk that just spawn in-- i.e they're isk created out of thin air and injected into the economy.

It would be interesting to know what the overall isk created vs. isk destroyed balance is each month. Anybody ever see an sources on the EVE economy and how it really works?
Velicitia
XS Tech
#20 - 2011-11-22 21:05:09 UTC
Mining doesn't create ISK out of thin air. It merely creates minerals.

The minerals are traded to other players for the ISK (much like PLEX).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

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