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Super Industrial Alliance
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Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#1 - 2012-09-14 23:13:46 UTC
Why is there not a super industrial alliance? If goons and test can pull together several thousand people, why has no one done the same with high sec industry? Why is there no alliance that has several corps one for for mining, production, research/inventing, missioning, market and admin where everyone helps each other out?

If someone were to make an alliance that was dedicated to being "THE" industrial alliance of the game would people join? The benefits of such an alliance would be incredible. You could in effect vertically integrate from the minerals all the way to the t2 production in house. That would allow you to produce whatever you wanted for far less and make far more profit.

More questions and comments pending on your feedback.
Jacabon Mere
Capital Storm.
#2 - 2012-09-14 23:18:06 UTC
what a perfect war dec target.

Capital Storm is recruiting Aussies for Lowsec pvp and money making. Join "Capital Storm Pub" channel ingame. www.capitalstorm.net
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#3 - 2012-09-14 23:21:24 UTC
Jacabon Mere wrote:
what a perfect war dec target.

lol. Good point. Pretend this were not a worry. There are plenty of creative way around wardecs.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#4 - 2012-09-14 23:36:40 UTC
Many industrial alliance exist that produce/mine/research all manner of things.
They work with combat groups too.
Maybe you haven't been looking hard enough for what you seek? Idea
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#5 - 2012-09-14 23:40:14 UTC
Oh I am a PvPer out in Syndicate. I just never have heard of an major industrial alliance anywhere in eve. I know there are lots of small groups. I just figured that if all those small groups were to form a larger group they could get more done more efficiently and reap the benefits.
Jacabon Mere
Capital Storm.
#6 - 2012-09-14 23:53:52 UTC
The thing is, ultimately everyone in the chain wants to make money. At least as much as if they were not part of the process, and since ultimately you are selling it on the market, the same amount of profit in total is available to share. So either everyone gets exactly the same amount of profit, or its imbalanced. Industry is generally far better done on your own with alts.

Capital Storm is recruiting Aussies for Lowsec pvp and money making. Join "Capital Storm Pub" channel ingame. www.capitalstorm.net
Bennet Am
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-09-15 03:18:17 UTC
I bet there are at least 2.
Savoian
The Muppet Show
#8 - 2012-09-15 07:49:45 UTC
Aliventi wrote:
Why is there not a super industrial alliance? If goons and test can pull together several thousand people, why has no one done the same with high sec industry? Why is there no alliance that has several corps one for for mining, production, research/inventing, missioning, market and admin where everyone helps each other out?

If someone were to make an alliance that was dedicated to being "THE" industrial alliance of the game would people join? The benefits of such an alliance would be incredible. You could in effect vertically integrate from the minerals all the way to the t2 production in house. That would allow you to produce whatever you wanted for far less and make far more profit.

More questions and comments pending on your feedback.


You do not need a super alliance to vertically integrate T2 production, in fact I do it alone with my alt, the only thing I miss are the moons to mine. For the rest I set up a WH large POS to do reactions, invention and production. Finally assembly of ships was done in an NPC station in hi sec. A lot of hauling but I could easily make several T2 cruisers and frigates per week.
I could have set up more POSes to do more reactions but tbh that would have screwed up my real life. I did this for about 4 months and it was working very well.

You do not need a super alliance to vertically integrate, 1 player + 1 alt are sufficient, 5 players would be more than enough.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-09-15 08:57:29 UTC
Aliventi wrote:
That would allow you to produce whatever you wanted for far less and make far more profit.


I doubt it.
Rengerel en Distel
#10 - 2012-09-15 12:30:05 UTC
Perhaps when you can do personal POS stations, have improved contracts, and better corp roles, it'll make more sense to create a large alliance like that. Right now though, most of it is better done by yourself to keep from getting screwed over.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Dalts
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#11 - 2012-09-15 13:50:08 UTC
ASCN was an alliance known as an industrial specialist alliance that was significant in the history of Eve. They built and then lost the 1st Titan ingame and were the main rival to BoB at one time. I'm sure your google fu will give you more details.
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#12 - 2012-09-15 15:02:26 UTC
No real benefit really and increased risk of wardecs. Plus, it costs isk to maintain an alliance.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

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Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#13 - 2012-09-15 17:25:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Shamus O'Reilly
The indies are out there (the ones youre looking for). you just need to dig a bit deeper Big smile


Edit: but not in the mass alliances you are thinking of

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."
Ginger Barbarella
#14 - 2012-09-15 18:52:00 UTC
Bennet Am wrote:
I bet there are at least 2.


Name them.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Sun Win
#15 - 2012-09-15 20:52:47 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Bennet Am wrote:
I bet there are at least 2.


Name them.


Well, Goons and Test to start. Who do you think builds all those ships they fly and runs the Tech moons and builds super capitals?
Count Lucius Mollari
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-09-18 23:39:20 UTC
The real reason you don't see science & industry ALLIANCES is that Alliance POS Usage is so broken!
The real problem is that there is no way to secure your very valuable blueprints when doing research in a large corp. Anyone in the corp could go rogue, steel everything and run. There is no security on these valuable assets! This leads many to dividing into sub-corps that are all part of an alliance to share the POS while securing the blueprints etc. Or if you wanted a large science & industry corp, they would currently have no good way to work together and share infrastructure resources.

This could be easily fixed in one of 3 waysIdea:

  • create a "hanger" that can be used by ALL of the industry/research tasks, but is restricted to just "owning" pilot.
  • allow materials to be taken from a station or outpost in the same solarsystem as the POS, just like is possible for the BPO's, but for all materials needed for an industrial/research job.
  • make a way for another corp (in the same alliance) to open up a POS structure containing a corp hangar and see inside it besides only the owning POS corp.


If you agree with any of these ideas, put some likes on this and see if we can't get a dev's attention. Blink
Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#17 - 2012-09-19 22:06:23 UTC
Count Lucius Mollari wrote:
The real reason you don't see science & industry ALLIANCES is that Alliance POS Usage is so broken!
The real problem is that there is no way to secure your very valuable blueprints when doing research in a large corp. Anyone in the corp could go rogue, steel everything and run. There is no security on these valuable assets! This leads many to dividing into sub-corps that are all part of an alliance to share the POS while securing the blueprints etc. Or if you wanted a large science & industry corp, they would currently have no good way to work together and share infrastructure resources.

This could be easily fixed in one of 3 waysIdea:

  • create a "hanger" that can be used by ALL of the industry/research tasks, but is restricted to just "owning" pilot.
  • allow materials to be taken from a station or outpost in the same solarsystem as the POS, just like is possible for the BPO's, but for all materials needed for an industrial/research job.
  • make a way for another corp (in the same alliance) to open up a POS structure containing a corp hangar and see inside it besides only the owning POS corp.


If you agree with any of these ideas, put some likes on this and see if we can't get a dev's attention. Blink


On top of this, the ability to manage industry in a corp/alliance format sucks. In addition to all the roles issues (of which you only hit the tip of the iceberg), there's no way to set up a corporate / alliance market. There's no in game way to establish production goals and targets. Sharing blueprints is impossible without giant security risks. Establishing POS rental fees is a pain. All of those things combine to really stifle mass industry. Aideron Robotics (the guy who makes Aura for you android phone) is TRYING to do this but he's had to create tons of out of game tools to get it done.

On top of all this, trying to keep people engaged in the Indy side is also a pain. The clickfest isn't for everyone. Spreadsheet jockeys aren't exactly known for charisma and mandatory mining ops are a recipe for making people quit.
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#18 - 2012-09-19 22:20:17 UTC
Sun Win wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Bennet Am wrote:
I bet there are at least 2.


Name them.


Well, Goons and Test to start. Who do you think builds all those ships they fly and runs the Tech moons and builds super capitals?


This.

Many times this.

The major coallitions in-game have their industrial sides. There is no 'pure' industrial alliance simply because without the pew-pew and combat side, they would have no means of defense or growth.

In the Hi-Sec world, an alliance based around industry would flop due to internal conflict and competition (on the market), as well as constant war-decs by other organized groups who want to keep it in check (i.e. Goons / Test). I imagine there would also be 'shipping lanes' camped by pirates to gank and hold the industrial chain at ransom.