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EVE: The last of the sub based MMO?
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#41 - 2012-09-14 12:19:35 UTC
eddie valvetino wrote:
eve already is "free to play" as it is also "pay to win"

ever since game time has been traded for ISK and bought or sold with RL cash.

If you can pay with isk to play, when clearly that is a free to play model.

and since, if your set up is "better" and therefore more expensive, all the time, guys like me can use RL cash to buy isk (which is what we do when we buy and sell plex). it's also play to win.

sometimes, i wonder what game people are playing, it's called eve, but doesn't look or sound much like the game i've been playing for nearly a decade


So you started playing before CCP legitimised GTC for ISK. When was that, exactly? Beta?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#42 - 2012-09-14 12:25:15 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:
But they can more easily afford things like gol...faction ammo and expensive ships which they have no fear of losing because they can always drop more rl money for plex and buy a new one.


If they're losing them and replacing them with isk from PLEX they bought, then they're not paying to win, they're paying to play... and losing.

"Gold ammo" that you cleverly alluded to is ammo that gives advantage over regular players, and can *only* be had through spending extra real money. That is "pay to win".

Faction ammo is not gold ammo. Faction ships are not gold ships.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Tamonash en Welle
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-09-14 12:34:20 UTC
eddie valvetino wrote:

If you can pay with isk to play, when clearly that is a free to play model.

Excuse me, what other F2P game allows you to use in game currency to pay for your subscription?

Do they have system where you must collect 200 bananas to be allowed to play the next month or you will not be able to play at all?

And what does that have to do with the 'free to play model' where you can play the game to some extent no matter if you got bananas or not?
eddie valvetino
Victory or Whatever
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#44 - 2012-09-14 12:34:21 UTC  |  Edited by: eddie valvetino
Malcanis wrote:
eddie valvetino wrote:
eve already is "free to play" as it is also "pay to win"

ever since game time has been traded for ISK and bought or sold with RL cash.

If you can pay with isk to play, when clearly that is a free to play model.

and since, if your set up is "better" and therefore more expensive, all the time, guys like me can use RL cash to buy isk (which is what we do when we buy and sell plex). it's also play to win.

sometimes, i wonder what game people are playing, it's called eve, but doesn't look or sound much like the game i've been playing for nearly a decade


So you started playing before CCP legitimised GTC for ISK. When was that, exactly? Beta?


and where did i say that?

reread brother... reread.

ETC, as they were before PLEX was released, a move made by CCP i believe to benefit from the trade in time codes, were in the game before i joined in 2003, even back then, debates were held on this very forum, asking for this guy to be banned and that guy to banned, for trading ETC bought with rl cash. Back then CCP made it clear it was not an exploit. There just wasn't the level of market protection, buy and sell orders were made on the fourms, codes sent via eve-mail once cash had been paid. of course, super open to scamming, ccp brought in "secure" trading for ETCs, finally a few years back they released the market seeded PLEX.

So no, I have no been playing from beta, but in 9 years, you have ALWAYS been able to "buy" isk with RL cash, though the sale of either ETC or PLEX.

Might i suggest, a. you do you research before posting and b. read carefully the post ppl make before posting yourself? you will look much less of s **** this way.
eddie valvetino
Victory or Whatever
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#45 - 2012-09-14 12:37:30 UTC
Tamonash en Welle wrote:
eddie valvetino wrote:

If you can pay with isk to play, when clearly that is a free to play model.

Excuse me, what other F2P game allows you to use in game currency to pay for your subscription?

Do they have system where you must collect 200 bananas to be allowed to play the next month or you will not be able to play at all?

And what does that have to do with the 'free to play model' where you can play the game to some extent no matter if you got bananas or not?


to be honest, i think my post is clear enough. the fact your IQ does not allow you to comprehend it, is no reason for me to go over it again
Tamonash en Welle
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-09-14 12:46:43 UTC
Ad hominem argumentation shows everybody how brilliant and valid your opion is.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#47 - 2012-09-14 12:50:06 UTC
I think the reason it has lasted so long can be down to 2 things:

1. They don't have a publisher siphoning profits then shutting them down when they fail to take every one of WoW's subscribers with 3 months (meanwhile having no game content to justify why this would happen)
2. it's not copying WoW. Lets face it, WoW is the best fantasy MMORPG out there, with rift being close behind in terms of content...

Dust will fill a gaping hole in the MMOFPS market - well played CCP... well played.
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-09-14 13:13:21 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
CCP managed to kill the true sandbox as well as turn their game into pay to win (not as bad as other games) the moment plex hit the scene. Treating eve like a strict monthly sub game is simply misguided.


PLEX is in no way "pay to win"
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#49 - 2012-09-14 13:44:36 UTC
Nyla Skin wrote:
Because that 10p is enough to keep the drug addicts, hobos and such from making a mess of the inside. The ones that you need to pay for are much cleaner inside.

I'm offended. I pay and I'm clearly a drug addict...
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2012-09-14 14:04:42 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
CCP managed to kill the true sandbox as well as turn their game into pay to win (not as bad as other games) the moment plex hit the scene. Treating eve like a strict monthly sub game is simply misguided.

lol...you clearly don't understand what "pay to win" actually means. If there ever comes a time where there are items in EVE that can ONLY be obtained by spending real money for that item and that item is better than all the others of it's kind...THEN it is pay to win. Buying a PLEX and selling it for in game ISK does not make the game pay to win. You can still buy everything the PLEX seller can without spending real money to do so.

In short...you are misguided to think that EVE is a pay to win game because of PLEX.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-09-14 14:06:07 UTC
Tamonash en Welle wrote:
eddie valvetino wrote:

If you can pay with isk to play, when clearly that is a free to play model.

Excuse me, what other F2P game allows you to use in game currency to pay for your subscription?


Tera Online.

Just saying...

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-09-14 14:21:07 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
nothing is free to play not even F2P if youplay a F2p game eventually you wiill pay just to pass a certain level cap or you will pay to use a certain powerfull item etc etc eventually you pay more than what you pay for a sub
Second F2p works fine on a MMO with 100 s of different serrvers
EvE is not, introducing F2P will create a unnbalance between people willi ng to pay for their toys and people who can't afford it or are not willing to pay for it



I have to disagree with oyu on this one. I play World of Tanks and its F2P I havent paid for anything in that game and it is still the most enjoyable F2P game out there I cant wait untill *** comes out.

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-09-14 14:28:25 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
nothing is free to play not even F2P if youplay a F2p game eventually you wiill pay just to pass a certain level cap or you will pay to use a certain powerfull item etc etc eventually you pay more than what you pay for a sub
Second F2p works fine on a MMO with 100 s of different serrvers
EvE is not, introducing F2P will create a unnbalance between people willi ng to pay for their toys and people who can't afford it or are not willing to pay for it



I have to disagree with oyu on this one. I play World of Tanks and its F2P I havent paid for anything in that game and it is still the most enjoyable F2P game out there I cant wait untill *** comes out.

Did the forum really just censor "8.0"?
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-09-14 14:39:46 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
RomeStar wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
nothing is free to play not even F2P if youplay a F2p game eventually you wiill pay just to pass a certain level cap or you will pay to use a certain powerfull item etc etc eventually you pay more than what you pay for a sub
Second F2p works fine on a MMO with 100 s of different serrvers
EvE is not, introducing F2P will create a unnbalance between people willi ng to pay for their toys and people who can't afford it or are not willing to pay for it



I have to disagree with oyu on this one. I play World of Tanks and its F2P I havent paid for anything in that game and it is still the most enjoyable F2P game out there I cant wait untill *** comes out.

Did the forum really just censor "8.0"?



Holy cow crap batman the censored World Of Planes aka W O P

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2012-09-14 14:46:37 UTC
F2P sucks. I hope EVE never stoops to that level. I pay for Eve because they actually have customer support and a Dev team constantly trying to improve the game. Good luck getting that with F2P.
Tamonash en Welle
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-09-14 14:53:25 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Tamonash en Welle wrote:
eddie valvetino wrote:

...

Excuse me, what other F2P game allows you to use in game currency to pay for your subscription?


Tera Online.

Just saying...

Perhaps, have not tried Tera. I cannot find any information about the game claiming to be F2P on their web site here either. In fact, it initially appears that I can only try it out for free for 7 days.

So, as of yet we still do not have an example of a F2P game that allow players to use in game currency to pay their subscription. Even though eddie claimed that "clearly that is a free to play model", so one would guess it should be fairly common.

Though, I have tried out a F2P that indeed does allow you to pay for your subscription with in game currency (Doubloon oceans in Puzzle Pirates), but when it comes to the question whether or not you are forced to gather in game currency to pay for your subscription each month or you will not be able to play the game at all, it is a 'no' for Puzzle Pirates and 'yes' for EVE.

Essentially, you cannot play EVE for "free" (at all) if you do not either have a subscription or gather enough in game currency to pay for it each month. This is not something I have seen in any of the F2P games I have tried out, and how eddie comes to the conclusion that exactly that mechanic is a clear trademark of the F2P model is what puzzled me.

Apparently he does have arguments for his case, though. Shame.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-09-14 15:02:00 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
I know huge swathes of people that purchase plex to replace lost ships instead of farming or mining like players use to in the past... The options to invest real life cash to purchase a plex which is then used to obtain large amounts of in game currency is exactly pay to win, regardless of which way you want to spin it.

Its not pay to win, its pay-to-not-grind

theres a big difference

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Korsiri
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-09-14 16:31:29 UTC
It isn't and I doubt it would be the last, even if it were.

A lot of the "F2P" schemes simply change how the money gets to the company - you still pay for what you want, or deal with a severely limited gameplay. Either way, the company gets the cash.
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#59 - 2012-09-14 18:21:31 UTC
All the stereotyping in this thread really shows the true colors, and subsequently the intelligence level of the community.
Cpt Gobla
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2012-09-14 18:30:39 UTC
As long as it's possible to blow up officer-fit vindicators with a drake gang or even a large swarm of rifters I wouldn't ever call this game pay-to-win.

A single player will always lose, no matter how expensive his ship, to a small gang of people with only 10% of the ISK invested.
A 1 billion Command Ship will lose to 100 million worth of Frigates. A 10 billion faction BS will lose to 1 billion worth of BCs. A 100 billion Titan will lose to 10 billion worth of dreads.

Pay as much as you want. Pimp that Vindi with dozens of PLEX. I'll just laugh when it eventually gets blown up by a Rifter gang.