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Retriever or Mack in high sec?
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Mad Menyo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-09-13 12:23:45 UTC
Hi,

I got back to eve recently and see they nerved the bad ass hulk i can finally fly now :/ :D. So did a lot of searching and reading and came to the conclusion that the mack suit me best for AFK mining in high sec since i rarely active mine and currently neither have the support of a orca or hauler.

Anyway, i loaded up EFT and now i got really confused. The mack outmines my retriever by not even 2%, yes it has a bigger cargohold which is nice but it also has a big fat cross on it's ass saying "gank me" and i really don't want to lose my bankroll over such a small amount of mining increase.

The stats:

I was really excited going from barge to exhumer but the difference between the two ships in eft with max mining gives me not even 2% extra mining yield.

Obvious the mack has more tank potential but i am mining in high sec and thus it gives more gank potential too and it's a expensive ship for about 200M stripped. The mack also has 40% more cargo which helps but i'm guessing not that much.

EFT Mack fit.
3 x MLU II
strip II + crystal I (cant seem to change crystal)
5 x mining drone

(with my stats)Ore yield: 1333

EFT Retriever fit.
3 X MLU II
strip II + crystal I (cant seem to change crystal)
5 x mining drone

(with my stats)Ore yield: 1310

Then i started to fit the hulk and was really confused, it has 1 high slot extra to fit a miner and 1 low slot less to fit a MLU. So i fitted it like that and EFT tells me that it has a 1450 ore yield. Now this can't be possible right? Is EFT messing up the numbers or am i missing something?

To get down to the actual question, what % increase in mining can i expect from the mack over the retriever when AFK mining?
Toroup
Prometheus Deep Core Mining and Salvage
#2 - 2012-09-13 17:51:38 UTC
Mining had always been about the extra 3-5%. A Mack mining Massive Scordite with no implants and 3 MLU2s can pull in 18.5M isk per hour according to the isk per hour application. A Retriever can pull in 17.6M per hour - so it's all a question of whether you want that extra 1M per hour. If you have someone who can haul for you, the Hulk is still the king pulling in 21.4M per hour (Covie is 19.4M).

Basically, Macks/Retrievers are used by people who tend to AFK. Hulks/Covies are used by people who either have a hauler or jetcan and haul themselves.
Rexorol
Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
#3 - 2012-09-13 17:56:36 UTC
Mad Menyo wrote:
Hi,


To get down to the actual question, what % increase in mining can i expect from the mack over the retriever when AFK mining?


Keep in mind that while the Mack is still good, it's gank bait.

I semi-AFK mine in Caldari space during the day sometimes in a retriever, and will check in occasionally to see small catalyst gangs warping in to pop the Macks there for their T2 mods, drones and salvage. It's still profitable to sacrifice 4-5 destroyers to kill one Mack, and some people will do it even if it's just for the lol's.

Considering a loss of a Mac gives back almost nothing in insurance, I wouldn't risk my investment on AFK mining.
Mad Menyo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-09-14 10:57:54 UTC
Yeah so exactly my thoughts. I am certainly not risking my whole bankroll with the mack then. 17M per hour on scordite thats a lot more then my veldspar with T2 strips + T2 crystal + 3x MLU II where i get a little over 10M when i am really active and mining the dense (10%) variant mostly.

I try to focus more on scordite to check it out.
Gumby Ambraelle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-09-14 11:02:41 UTC
Rexorol wrote:
Mad Menyo wrote:
Hi,


To get down to the actual question, what % increase in mining can i expect from the mack over the retriever when AFK mining?


Keep in mind that while the Mack is still good, it's gank bait.

I semi-AFK mine in Caldari space during the day sometimes in a retriever, and will check in occasionally to see small catalyst gangs warping in to pop the Macks there for their T2 mods, drones and salvage. It's still profitable to sacrifice 4-5 destroyers to kill one Mack, and some people will do it even if it's just for the lol's.

Considering a loss of a Mac gives back almost nothing in insurance, I wouldn't risk my investment on AFK mining.



^^^^^

Last check a Mack was 258M a retrriever was 20M

so I could lose 10 Rets with mods and still break even with one Mack loss

Rets for the AFK mining win
My Postman
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-09-14 11:24:06 UTC
When facing regular ganks, Retriever will be your ship.

Mack is the new champion in solo mining, without Orca support. It´s 35k Ore hold allows you to stay in belt for approx half an hour, and you can fit a recent tank on it (20k EHP).

Because of it´s massive Ore Hold it will (tested) outmine the Hulk, even before the Hulk nerf, and before nerf/buff it was not even easy to get the Hulk up to 20k EHP. So when not afk and on your toes, Mack is your choise.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-09-14 16:45:26 UTC
Gumby Ambraelle wrote:
Last check a Mack was 258M a retrriever was 20M

so I could lose 10 Rets with mods and still break even with one Mack loss

Rets for the AFK mining win


Mackinaw prices are down to under 200m now. 190m or so in Jita in fact. Retrievers are still hovering in the 19-20m range. Still a pretty hefty price imbalance, but it's smaller than the one you recall.
Sturmwolke
#8 - 2012-09-15 06:30:25 UTC
Mad Menyo wrote:

To get down to the actual question, what % increase in mining can i expect from the mack over the retriever when AFK mining?


Looking at your yields, the difference would be the extra 1-2 dockings to dump ore per hour.
So, let's say avg 3mins per docking round trip, that's 3-6mins/hour lost. Convert that to ore.

Tha above of course assumes you solo mine, with no Orca/hauler support.
Just be aware that Mackinaws are still very viable gank targets, gankers just haven't worked it out completely yet.
Martin0
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#9 - 2012-09-15 06:58:09 UTC
Fit a damage control instead of MLU.
You chances to survive a gank have increased by 90%
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#10 - 2012-09-15 12:28:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurelius Valentius
Rexorol wrote:
Mad Menyo wrote:
Hi,


To get down to the actual question, what % increase in mining can i expect from the mack over the retriever when AFK mining?


Keep in mind that while the Mack is still good, it's gank bait.

I semi-AFK mine in Caldari space during the day sometimes in a retriever, and will check in occasionally to see small catalyst gangs warping in to pop the Macks there for their T2 mods, drones and salvage. It's still profitable to sacrifice 4-5 destroyers to kill one Mack, and some people will do it even if it's just for the lol's.

Considering a loss of a Mac gives back almost nothing in insurance, I wouldn't risk my investment on AFK mining.


You could always "Tank" your Mack...

[Mackinaw, Tank w/Miner Drones]
Damage Control II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Scordite Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Scordite Mining Crystal II

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I


Hobgoblin II x5
Mining Drone II x5

Your going to do 1602 per min
stoicfaux
#11 - 2012-09-15 12:52:19 UTC
Retriever has a 27K hold and the Procurer has a 12k hold. If you willing to dock more often, but you aren't willing to tank your Retriever, yet still need to fend off teams of suicide gankers.

Void: 57,364 EHP
Hail: 53,140 EHP
EM/Therm: 66,174 EHP

That translates to 6+ fully skilled max gank catalysts.

[Procurer, New Setup 1]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Survey Scanner II
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Shoot'Em
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-09-16 00:27:08 UTC
Use a mining Rokh