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Isn't it about time suicide ganking was fixed? (Not removed, just made harder).

First post
Author
Captain Jackoff
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-10-15 14:58:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Jackoff
In light of how easily the goons have been able to clear gallente space of ice miners, I say the time has finally come to fix suicide ganking. Everybody is too afraid to mine gallente ice in hi-sec. What happend to concord? Oh that's right, concord are all but worthless in this.

I can think of two changes, one of which that should have been made a long time ago.

Insurance needs to be voided if the person dies to concord. Being able to gank targets in hi sec at little to no cost is stupid. Gankers being able to take up insurance so they can get paid to throw away their ships by comitting a crime is also stupid.

Concord needs to be improved, they are supposed to deter ganking from occuring in hi-sec, but they fail at this. I suggest that concord response times are greatly improved. It should still be possible to gank a target, but you'll need more firepower and there's a high risk of concord taking you out before you destroy your target.

These changes won't stop people from ganking each other in hi-sec, but anything that makes it harder will make a huge difference.
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-10-15 15:16:44 UTC
Ganking involves loosing a ship (Brutix/Thorax/Tempest/Typhoon, whatever), and getting closer to -10.0 sec status.

That means, you can gank but you'll suffer the consequences.

Working as intended.

Also, tears. Don't provide those, and we'll stop (eventually, cause ganking helpless and worthless pubbies makes us go :smug:).
Jovan Geldon
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2011-10-15 15:22:10 UTC
Captain Jackoff wrote:
Concord needs to be improved, they are supposed to deter ganking from occuring in hi-sec,


Nope.avi

CONCORD provides consequences, not protection.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-10-15 15:23:28 UTC
What CONCORD needs to do is instant warp in regardless of sec status, pop the ship and void the warranty on insurance, and a little something extra for good measure pop the pod with a scrambling ray that fuxxors up your clone regardless if its updated or not, you will still loose SP. As for throw away alts in destroyers, buff exhumers and bargers by a factor of 5x to the hitpoints + 75% resist across the board + another 3 low slots (Bulk Head, Bulk Head, DCU, Inert Stab, Inert Stab = beefy yet almost graceful as a swan when it aligns) )so it takes even more destroyers to get a Hulk (its an MMO, bring friends Roll ). Oh, and another idea I had for laughs is PVE insurance flag for the ship....a 90 period where if your destroyed doing a PVE activity (I know, Battlehulk but thats rare) no kill mail is generated to give them a good kick in the nuts cause they will have proof of their activities Lol
Alara IonStorm
#5 - 2011-10-15 15:29:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
I think changes need to be made...

To the ships. Mining Barges have almost no room for tank. A fully tanked Hulk with a DCU, Hardeners, Extenders, CDFE Rigs runs close to 30k EHP. If you fully tank it properly it should be designed to be 45-60k. Make it so mining Barges can host a good Shield Tank, Pro:15k, Retty:25k, Covi:30k.

Give these people a fighting chance to tank there ships if they so choose. Same with Industrials and such.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#6 - 2011-10-15 15:29:18 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
What CONCORD needs to do is instant warp in regardless of sec status, pop the ship and void the warranty on insurance, and a little something extra for good measure pop the pod with a scrambling ray that fuxxors up your clone regardless if its updated or not, you will still loose SP. As for throw away alts in destroyers, buff exhumers and bargers by a factor of 5x to the hitpoints + 75% resist across the board + another 3 low slots (Bulk Head, Bulk Head, DCU, Inert Stab, Inert Stab = beefy yet almost graceful as a swan when it aligns) )so it takes even more destroyers to get a Hulk (its an MMO, bring friends Roll ). Oh, and another idea I had for laughs is PVE insurance flag for the ship....a 90 period where if your destroyed doing a PVE activity (I know, Battlehulk but thats rare) no kill mail is generated to give them a good kick in the nuts cause they will have proof of their activities Lol


The bitter is strong in this one.
Captain Jackoff
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-10-15 15:31:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Jackoff
Jovan Geldon wrote:
Captain Jackoff wrote:
Concord needs to be improved, they are supposed to deter ganking from occuring in hi-sec,


Nope.avi

CONCORD provides consequences, not protection.


Said consequences are all but meaningless. I was right with what I said, concord is supposed to be a deterance, that doesn't mean they will prevent it from happening, but deter people from doing it. Thanks to insurance and the ease of ganking industrial ships, the current concord does not deter nor provide consequence of any worth.

Buffing industrial ship HP sounds like a good start, why are slow, heavy ships that are designed for industrial activities made of paper? Give mining barges and exhumers a 100% hp increase, or give them more a lot more cpu and grid and a few extra mid slots and a 50% hp increase.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#8 - 2011-10-15 15:31:27 UTC
SMT008 wrote:
Also, tears. Don't provide those, and we'll stop (eventually, cause ganking helpless and worthless pubbies makes us go :smug:).


Aqriue wrote:
What CONCORD needs to do is instant warp in regardless of sec status, pop the ship and void the warranty on insurance, and a little something extra for good measure pop the pod with a scrambling ray that fuxxors up your clone regardless if its updated or not, you will still loose SP. As for throw away alts in destroyers, buff exhumers and bargers by a factor of 5x to the hitpoints + 75% resist across the board + another 3 low slots (Bulk Head, Bulk Head, DCU, Inert Stab, Inert Stab = beefy yet almost graceful as a swan when it aligns) )so it takes even more destroyers to get a Hulk (its an MMO, bring friends Roll ). Oh, and another idea I had for laughs is PVE insurance flag for the ship....a 90 period where if your destroyed doing a PVE activity (I know, Battlehulk but thats rare) no kill mail is generated to give them a good kick in the nuts cause they will have proof of their activities Lol


This is one form of those tears... and the tastiest kind in fact, because behind the insanity and retardation is that true mad that only crying so hard you can't breathe brings.

90% of it is for the tears, and as said, if they get none, they go elsewhere. Try remember the first rule of Eve(don't fly what you can't lose), and watch the gank objectively, and give an honest opinion of how they might improve next time, or ask them how a certain mechanic that they exploit works. You will probably learn something, and gain some respect. Or, you will get to savor the sweet tears of a balked griefer yourself Cool If this happens, take a good taste, swish them around a little, and see how the taste. And then you will know why tears are so highly in demand Big smile

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#9 - 2011-10-15 15:32:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Yes. It's about time suicide ganking is fixed.

It needs to be much easier than it is right now. That way, highsec dwellers learn to shed their illusions of safety and start to fly intelligently.
Quote:
Concord needs to be improved, they are supposed to deter ganking from occuring in hi-sec
No, they're not. They're supposed to ensure that aggression costs. They are doing exactly that.

The hope (and that is all it is) among highsec dwellers is that this cost will be enough to keep them from being attacked without some kind of motivation, and that part largely works too. It's just that this hope is easily dashed when the motivations change from involving just plain old loot and start to be about something else…
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2011-10-15 15:33:06 UTC
Captain Jackoff wrote:


Said consequences are all but meaningless. I was right with what I said, concord is supposed to be a deterance, that doesn't mean they will prevent it from happening, but deter people from doing it. Thanks to insurance and the ease of ganking industrial ships, the current concord does not deter nor provide consequence of any worth.

Buffing industrial ship HP sounds like a good start, why are slow, heavy ships that are designed for industrial activities made of paper? Give mining barges and exhumers a 100% hp increase.


Because every time I undock my industial ships I get attacked.

Oh wai...
Esagila
#11 - 2011-10-15 15:38:38 UTC
Definitely agree that people who die to concord should not get an insurance payout upon their death.

But changing the timer? Maybe they could increase the patrols, so that they’re hanging around for a week instead of till downtime after being spawned … with the idea that they shouldn’t need time to arrive to the scene.
Ogi Talvanen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-10-15 15:39:18 UTC
Captain Jackoff wrote:
Everybody is too afraid to mine gallente ice in hi-sec. What happend to concord? Oh that's right, concord are all but worthless in this..


Its like real life. Cops also usually arrive when you are dead. Fact is Concord cant save you from 1400 mm arty. No one can.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#13 - 2011-10-15 15:41:09 UTC
Esagila wrote:
Definitely agree that people who die to concord should not get an insurance payout upon their death.
That would lessen the incentives to suicide gank people. Bad idea.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#14 - 2011-10-15 15:45:16 UTC
Ogi Talvanen wrote:
Captain Jackoff wrote:
Everybody is too afraid to mine gallente ice in hi-sec. What happend to concord? Oh that's right, concord are all but worthless in this..


Its like real life. Cops also usually arrive when you are dead. Fact is Concord cant save you from 1400 mm arty. No one can.

I don't know about elsewhere, but here in the US it has been upheld in court time and again that the police have no obligation to protect you. Their job is to protect society, not individuals, and they are to do that by punishing the bad guys....

Interestingly, this sounds VERY familiar Lol

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Ogi Talvanen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2011-10-15 15:48:05 UTC
Exactly.
Igualmentedos
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2011-10-15 15:53:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Igualmentedos
Alara IonStorm wrote:
I think changes need to be made...

To the ships. Mining Barges have almost no room for tank. A fully tanked Hulk with a DCU, Hardeners, Extenders, CDFE Rigs runs close to 30k EHP. If you fully tank it properly it should be designed to be 45-60k. Make it so mining Barges can host a good Shield Tank, Pro:15k, Retty:25k, Covi:30k.

Give these people a fighting chance to tank there ships if they so choose. Same with Industrials and such.



I think suicide ganking is fine, but I think the current mechanic is ridiculous. Miners should have better tanks/ships to combat gankers and gankers shouldn't get an insurance payout.

If you ABSOLUTELY want to kill someone, you should be able to do it no matter where they are, but it should actually cost some isk. Otherwise, it's just stupid.
Igualmentedos
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2011-10-15 15:55:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Esagila wrote:
Definitely agree that people who die to concord should not get an insurance payout upon their death.
That would lessen the incentives to suicide gank people. Bad idea.



I disagree, the purpose for suicide ganking should be to eliminate your opponent, and in rare circumstances you would be able to turn a profit. overall, you should lose a great deal of ISK in the process (depending on target and your ship).

Insurance should be removed for those smacked down by concord.
Xython
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-10-15 15:56:41 UTC
>Isn't it about time suicide ganking was fixed? (Not removed, just made harder).

No.

Well, that was a quick thread.


(They already DID this, back when Jihadswarm started. HARDEN UP, PUBBIES.)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2011-10-15 15:56:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Igualmentedos wrote:
If you ABSOLUTELY want to kill someone, you should be able to do it no matter where they are, but it should actually cost some isk.
Fun fact: it does, even with insurance.
Quote:
I disagree, the purpose for suicide ganking should be to eliminate your opponent, and in rare circumstances you would be able to turn a profit.
So… why should it be disincentivised? And why should it only be profitable under rare circumstances?
Quote:
overall, you should lose a great deal of ISK in the process (depending on target and your ship).
Insurance should be removed for those smacked down by concord.
Why?
Xython
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2011-10-15 15:59:23 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
I think changes need to be made...

To the ships. Mining Barges have almost no room for tank..


Why would it? It's supposed to be weak. You're supposed to have an escort if you're in a dangerous area. And with the Goons around, Gallente Ice Fields are a dangerous area.

I'm really sorry your guys' Ice Miner Bot Alts got ganked, but that's the chances you take when you run an AFK Bot.
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