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More Nerf to ganking

First post
Author
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#421 - 2012-09-12 16:42:58 UTC
You know, traditionally goons have been about ruining the gameplay of others in order to harvest tears. What if their overarching plan is to ruin eve by influencing CCP to carebear-ize eve online to burn the hardcore playerbase?

That would certainly maximize the tear harvest.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#422 - 2012-09-12 16:43:56 UTC
Tippia wrote:
So, not worth it, then.


Is it about risk being too big or you don't have enough internet spaceship game friends?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#423 - 2012-09-12 16:45:38 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Is it about risk being too big or you don't have enough internet spaceship game friends?
No. It's about it not carrying enough valuables.
unloadedx16
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#424 - 2012-09-12 16:45:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
unloadedx16 wrote:
3) And yes that is exactly what I'm saying. For a big slow ship with no fitting slots and little means of defending itself, cost most definitely should equal cost.
No, it really shouldn't, regardless of the ship.

Quote:
And in other words it's not??
Don't be silly. Of course it is. Since cost is not a balancing factor, a bunch of cheap ships ruining the day of a much more expensive one is working just as intended. If anything. 2:1 is far too low a ratio and you should be able to get the kill with far less than that, and the JF's 5:1 ratio is much more appropriate.


Ok then what do you think should be the balancing factor for ganking a freighter?
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#425 - 2012-09-12 16:46:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
No. It's about it not carrying enough valuables.


I'll take that as "risk is too big for me" then. Smile
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#426 - 2012-09-12 16:48:47 UTC
unloadedx16 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
unloadedx16 wrote:
3) And yes that is exactly what I'm saying. For a big slow ship with no fitting slots and little means of defending itself, cost most definitely should equal cost.
No, it really shouldn't, regardless of the ship.

Quote:
And in other words it's not??
Don't be silly. Of course it is. Since cost is not a balancing factor, a bunch of cheap ships ruining the day of a much more expensive one is working just as intended. If anything. 2:1 is far too low a ratio and you should be able to get the kill with far less than that, and the JF's 5:1 ratio is much more appropriate.


Ok then what do you think should be the balancing factor for ganking a freighter?


How much isk worth he pupt in his cargo hold. Having thousands of m3 does nto eman it is to be used for anything. Fill a freighter with high priced T2 BPO and I am pretty sure no amount of tank buff you currently think of would be enough to prevent it from being ganked unless it's 100% unkillable
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#427 - 2012-09-12 16:49:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
I'll take that as "risk is too big for me" then. Smile
You do that, since you have long since shown your preference for being wrong about everything. There's no reason for you to break the streak, now is it?

…or you can take it for what it says: that it's not carrying enough valuables.

Oh, and since I missed unloadedx16's response due to Jorma being his usual always-wrong self…

unloadedx16 wrote:
Ok then what do you think should be the balancing factor for ganking a freighter?
The same as for everything else: what does it do? Is it capable of doing what it's supposed to be doing, and with how much effort? What options are available to improve its capabilities? What are its hard counters? What can it counter itself? How does it scale with other options for the same activity? Cost isn't a factor in any of that and it certainly can't balance anything out that isn't where it should be.
unloadedx16
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#428 - 2012-09-12 16:49:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
unloadedx16 wrote:


I agree with you, yes the pilot did not make a very good decision for hauling so much isk worth that it would be potentially profitable to gank him (if the loot drop gods are on your side).
What I'm arguing is that it should take more than 900mill to gank him in the first place.



So 6 15 mil frigates should never kill a 2 bil battleship?


A battleship has a different purpose than a freighter and has the OPTION to be tanky or ganky.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#429 - 2012-09-12 16:50:38 UTC
That's why RFF never recommends to haul more than 1 bil worth of stuff in a freighter.

Good job taking those freighters down, nice to see that at least reasonably sized and organized group can do stuff in hi-sec these days.
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#430 - 2012-09-12 16:51:36 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
No. It's about it not carrying enough valuables.


I'll take that as "risk is too big for me" then. Smile


It's not really a risk in the case of a gank but a final cost. You will need X ship at Y price to blow up ship Z.If ship Z don't drop X * Y * 2 in loot, then it not worth the effort. The cost of the hauling ship is still meaningless.
unloadedx16
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#431 - 2012-09-12 16:53:03 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
That's why RFF never recommends to haul more than 1 bil worth of stuff in a freighter.

Good job taking those freighters down, nice to see that at least reasonably sized and organized group can do stuff in hi-sec these days.


1bill is chump change, freighters need a slight buff so that 1bill bar can be raised.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#432 - 2012-09-12 16:55:28 UTC
unloadedx16 wrote:
1bill is chump change, freighters need a slight buff so that 1bill bar can be raised.
Not really, no.

If you need to carry more value, use ships that are better suited for the purpose. They already exist and there's no reason to fiddle with the freighters to cover this already-covered niche.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#433 - 2012-09-12 16:55:37 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
It's not really a risk in the case of a gank but a final cost. You will need X ship at Y price to blow up ship Z.If ship Z don't drop X * Y * 2 in loot, then it not worth the effort. The cost of the hauling ship is still meaningless.


Well, Drop said it is possible to gank 600k EHP (or actually 700k if mindlink) Damnation with one Tornado in 1.0 system.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#434 - 2012-09-12 16:56:47 UTC
unloadedx16 wrote:

A battleship has a different purpose than a freighter and has the OPTION to be tanky or ganky.


The frieghter has the OPTION to not carry enough cargo to make it gank worthy. You even get an isk estimate on how much you have in the hold in the cargo tab so its not like you don't know theres 21 billion in there.
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#435 - 2012-09-12 16:57:23 UTC
unloadedx16 wrote:
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
That's why RFF never recommends to haul more than 1 bil worth of stuff in a freighter.

Good job taking those freighters down, nice to see that at least reasonably sized and organized group can do stuff in hi-sec these days.


1bill is chump change, freighters need a slight buff so that 1bill bar can be raised.


Maybe they were designed with hauling different things in mind. Instead of really valuable items, what if ti was bulky not so valuable items?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#436 - 2012-09-12 17:00:19 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Well, Drop said it is possible to gank 600k EHP (or actually 700k if mindlink) Damnation with one Tornado in 1.0 system.
Eh, Drop hasn't posted in over four years.
And no-one has said anything ever remotely like what you're claiming, so good job not breaking that “always being wrong about everything”-streak you've got going. Lol
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#437 - 2012-09-12 17:03:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#438 - 2012-09-12 17:08:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Wrong Drop.
Then maybe you should refer to their full name? The game reports 500 characters matching “drop”, and none of them seem to have posted in this thread. Even for you, that's a spectacular level of being wrong (and you set the bar for being wrong amazingly high as it is).

…oh, and no-one has still said anything remotely like the claim in your strawman argument.
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#439 - 2012-09-12 17:13:06 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
It's not really a risk in the case of a gank but a final cost. You will need X ship at Y price to blow up ship Z.If ship Z don't drop X * Y * 2 in loot, then it not worth the effort. The cost of the hauling ship is still meaningless.


Well, Drop said it is possible to gank 600k EHP (or actually 700k if mindlink) Damnation with one Tornado in 1.0 system.


I'm pretty sure noone ever intended to gank 600k ehp worth of ship in a single tornado anywhere in high sec...
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#440 - 2012-09-12 17:59:16 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
It's not really a risk in the case of a gank but a final cost. You will need X ship at Y price to blow up ship Z.If ship Z don't drop X * Y * 2 in loot, then it not worth the effort. The cost of the hauling ship is still meaningless.


Well, Drop said it is possible to gank 600k EHP (or actually 700k if mindlink) Damnation with one Tornado in 1.0 system.


Just stop. Stop cluttering this thread with off-topic trolling. It's an engaging read up until you start posting and some people try to engage your baffling trolling.

Why don't you go create a new thread entitled "Can a lone Tornado launch a 700k alpha strike?" because that's all you want to talk about (good for you?) despite the fact that it has nothing to do with the actual topic being discussed.

On topic - seems to be working as intended. Given the different ship options available for hauling cargo, freighters appear to be the "carry bulky, relatively inexpensive products" type of hauler. Thinking you need to jam every square meter of that hold with billions of isk worth of cargo is operator error, not design error.

I am not an alt of Chribba.