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Tengu & Level 4 missions
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Rainbow Room
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-09-12 14:31:38 UTC
Hey,

I've been toying with flying a Tengu for level 4 missions. I'm currently sat in a Navy Raven but figured I'd quite like a change.
I've never flown a Tengu but I'm at the stage where all the subsystems are at level 4 and understand the concept that speed and movement is key for this ship.

Are lvl 4 subsystem skills good enough for the to do lvl 4 missions or should I train them all to level 5?

Thoughts?


My initial fit would be running with T2 everything (so t2 mid slots, t2 Heavy Assaults or t2 heavy missile and t2 low slots). Something like:

5 x Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Target Painter II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
2 x T2 hardeners (npc specific)
10MN Afterburner
3 x Ballistic Control System II
Lucas41
SOMACOM
#2 - 2012-09-12 14:38:51 UTC
You are going to want to change your subs around to allow for 6 HML in the high slots. You can run lvl 4's in a tengu with all subs trained to 4. However, my personal preference is having them all to 5 as the ship really shines when the subs are maxed out.
Rainbow Room
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-09-12 14:54:01 UTC
Thanks for the reply.

Cool. I'll start puttng a ship together tonight then.
I figured I'd train all to level 5 at some stage, probably now as in reality the train time isn't horrific. I think I worked out going from lvl 4 to 5 across all subsystem is about 20 days or slightly under.
BearJews
Order of Extrodinary Gentlemen
#4 - 2012-09-12 14:54:21 UTC
If you don't want to train all your skills to lvl5, the missions are doable but I highly recommend you at least train the defense and offense to 5 for obvious reasons. And it doesn't take long at all. This is my personal fit, it's expensive but it works.

Below is fitted for Guristas since the tengu Really shines when it comes to applying and defending against kinetic.

[Tengu, Pve Lvl 4]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-09-12 17:15:39 UTC
Offense has to be at 5 or its not worth it IMHO. Defense is ok at 4 but I always used a deadspace SB.

All 5's is clearly the end goal however.
Jack Traynor
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-09-12 19:26:07 UTC
Rainbow Room wrote:
Hey,

I've been toying with flying a Tengu for level 4 missions. I'm currently sat in a Navy Raven but figured I'd quite like a change.
I've never flown a Tengu but I'm at the stage where all the subsystems are at level 4 and understand the concept that speed and movement is key for this ship.

Are lvl 4 subsystem skills good enough for the to do lvl 4 missions or should I train them all to level 5?

Thoughts?


My initial fit would be running with T2 everything (so t2 mid slots, t2 Heavy Assaults or t2 heavy missile and t2 low slots). Something like:

5 x Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Target Painter II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
2 x T2 hardeners (npc specific)
10MN Afterburner
3 x Ballistic Control System II





L4 is good enough, but you will actually see a difference in your performance with all L5 on the subsystems. I didn't think it would make a difference going to five, but it really is. Can't say this for other ships, personally.
Lucas41
SOMACOM
#7 - 2012-09-12 20:22:59 UTC
Cool deal, glad we could be of assistance.
Anvil44
Avedis Corporation
#8 - 2012-09-12 20:57:12 UTC
Also a shield Boost Amplifier without the shield booster is like carrying missles without a missle launcher.

I run with Heavy Missle Launcher myself. I can hit out to about 115km or so and still put out over 500dps kinetic damage.

I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#9 - 2012-09-12 21:20:03 UTC
Anvil44 wrote:
I run with Heavy Missle Launcher myself. I can hit out to about 115km or so and still put out over 500dps kinetic damage.


Honestly, you should be able to get 500 non-kinetic DPS out of any mission Tengu, especially any high sec build. Hell, I get 500 non-kinetic on a low sec exploration build. A brief look says that 724 is a pretty good baseline for a well-skilled mission Tengu provided you're running in high sec.
Belthazor4011
Battle BV Redux
#10 - 2012-09-13 01:12:57 UTC
Agreed 700 DPS should be doable, but its still crap compared to other solutions including the CNR you're currently in which can do equal and/or better DPS with a Cruise fit.

Why people love the Tengu is beyond me. A tank that can handle level 4s is no big deal and can be done a lot cheaper then most Tengu's, add that to the relatively crap DPS and I dont get why anyone flies the damn thing for level 4s.

The only thing might be the speed and agility of a cruiser hull, but there are not that many missions where that actually makes a difference.

I do understand and respect the Tengu for other purposes btw, its not a totally useless ship...
Doddy
Excidium.
#11 - 2012-09-13 11:15:49 UTC
He doesn't have a booster .......
Hazen Koraka
HK Enterprises
#12 - 2012-09-13 12:16:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Hazen Koraka
BearJews wrote:
If you don't want to train all your skills to lvl5, the missions are doable but I highly recommend you at least train the defense and offense to 5 for obvious reasons. And it doesn't take long at all. This is my personal fit, it's expensive but it works.

Below is fitted for Guristas since the tengu Really shines when it comes to applying and defending against kinetic.

[Tengu, Pve Lvl 4]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst




Isn't the 4th BCU kinda pointless? You get what, about an extra 1% out of the 4th after stacking penalities? Add something else, maybe even a DCU?

Edit: Hmm not sure on the actual amount, but I think 4th stacking penalty is pretty harsh. Anyone got the exact formula?

Exploration is Random. Random is Random... or is it?! http://docs.python.org/2/library/random.html
Zanarkand
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-09-13 12:41:20 UTC
Hazen Koraka wrote:
...


1. 100%
2. 87%
3. 57%
4. 28%

You still get about 6-7% dps boost, very much worth it in my opinion.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-09-13 13:52:48 UTC
Hazen Koraka wrote:

Isn't the 4th BCU kinda pointless? You get what, about an extra 1% out of the 4th after stacking penalities? Add something else, maybe even a DCU?

Edit: Hmm not sure on the actual amount, but I think 4th stacking penalty is pretty harsh. Anyone got the exact formula?


the tengu's base properties are so good that it is actually difficult not to overtank it. that's why you can and should commit as many slots to DPS as you possibly can.
also notice how rate of fire stacks in EVE. if you *could* get to 100% increased RoF, you would be shooting your whole rack at once. this means that the more RoF you stack, the more useful it becomes. at some point this effect starts to counteract the stacking penalties by a significant amount.

I should buy an Ishtar.
BearJews
Order of Extrodinary Gentlemen
#15 - 2012-09-13 15:24:15 UTC
Hazen Koraka wrote:
BearJews wrote:
If you don't want to train all your skills to lvl5, the missions are doable but I highly recommend you at least train the defense and offense to 5 for obvious reasons. And it doesn't take long at all. This is my personal fit, it's expensive but it works.

Below is fitted for Guristas since the tengu Really shines when it comes to applying and defending against kinetic.

[Tengu, Pve Lvl 4]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst




Isn't the 4th BCU kinda pointless? You get what, about an extra 1% out of the 4th after stacking penalties? Add something else, maybe even a DCU?

Edit: Hmm not sure on the actual amount, but I think 4th stacking penalty is pretty harsh. Anyone got the exact formula?


It's a matter of 2 volleying an NPC cruiser, or 3 Volleying it. Also this is quite the tight fit and i'm not sure a DCII would fit and it's complete unnecessary. I honestly don't think there is anything else you can but in that slot that gives you an advantage. Hell even picking a utility module in the mids was a challenge. You don't even need that web, but it makes killing off SPider drone II a lot faster since they are your worst enemy in any mission. You can go ahead and replace that with more tank if you want (you really really don't need it though).
Scoto Timta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-09-13 15:50:35 UTC
BearJews wrote:
... I honestly don't think there is anything else you can put in that slot that gives you an advantage.

Against Guristas, a sensor backup array may be useful instead of 4th BCU. I don't get jammed a lot without it, but it would be nice to not get jammed at all. Big smile

I usually use a sig amp myself, just to give me really long-range targeting and lock the stuff up a little bit faster. Maybe the 4th BCU would be better, but I just didn't like that stacking penalty.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#17 - 2012-09-13 19:50:42 UTC
Hazen Koraka wrote:
Isn't the 4th BCU kinda pointless? You get what, about an extra 1% out of the 4th after stacking penalities? Add something else, maybe even a DCU?

Edit: Hmm not sure on the actual amount, but I think 4th stacking penalty is pretty harsh. Anyone got the exact formula?


0.5^((([order in stacking penalty]-1)/2.22292081)^2)

Fourth navy BCU gives you 7.27% over the third or 12.82% increase on base.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#18 - 2012-09-13 21:01:26 UTC
My alt did level 4 in this fit with minimal missile skills. Orbit the warp-in beacon at 5 km or the next gate at 500 m (gates are huge), and shoot smallest to largest, giving priority to webbers. I ignored triggers and had no problems.

You can use T1 launchers, but that really is a crime on a Tengu.

This isn't the best fit (one can do a LOT better with more ISK and skill points), but it works:

[Tengu, Basic]
Power Diagnostic System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Shield Boost Amplifier I
Dread Guristas Photon Scattering Field
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
10MN Afterburner II
Medium Shield Booster II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Shaotuk
Sin City Enterprises
#19 - 2012-09-14 03:35:15 UTC
Belthazor4011 wrote:
Agreed 700 DPS should be doable, but its still crap compared to other solutions including the CNR you're currently in which can do equal and/or better DPS with a Cruise fit.

Why people love the Tengu is beyond me. A tank that can handle level 4s is no big deal and can be done a lot cheaper then most Tengu's, add that to the relatively crap DPS and I dont get why anyone flies the damn thing for level 4s.

The only thing might be the speed and agility of a cruiser hull, but there are not that many missions where that actually makes a difference.

I do understand and respect the Tengu for other purposes btw, its not a totally useless ship...


Coming from a pilot that has flown both, I can say, without a doubt, a Tengu is much faster at clearing missions compared to a CNR. You might want to learn the difference between max DPS and applied DPS.
Dennis Gregs
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-09-14 03:55:09 UTC
Just the fact that I have to 'worry' about frigates offputs me from Tengu in missions, I prefer to semi afk with my Raven tbh. It might be cool for a change of pace though, ymmv.
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