Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Currently, there is no well rounded all in one exploration ship. To successfully be able to just go off into the universe and explore, you need a probe launcher, salvager, analyzer, and codebreaker. This alone is a pretty big gimp to your fit, and if you want to operate in dangerous space, you need to also tack on a cloaking device, a microwarp drive, and if you plan on actually running the sites you find that have rats, DPS, and a tank. You just cannot do it all with one ship at present. Yes, group gameplay and all, getfriends.jpg, but exploration is marketed as a solo career, something you can go off and do by yourself.

Currently, the only way to build an exploration ship that can do everything is a drone boat, the arbitrator hull for the Amarr, and Gallentean. It seems a bit imbalanced to me to be gimped for solo exploration as Caldari and minmatar

What I propose is:
A: either new ships, be it T1 or T2, for exploration, for each race.
B. new faction (SOE? The Society?) exploration ships.


So, what would be required to be able to build a good exploration boat?

Well, first, right off the bat, if you want to be able to make a gun or missile boat able to have the utility required, you need to give it a largish weapon damage bonus, to make up for being able to fit less guns. For a battlecruiser sized hull, perhaps 7 high slots, 3 turret or missile hardpoints, with a 100% damage bonus, giving the equivalent of fitting a full rack of guns. I also thing a optimal/falloff/missile velocity bonus is a must. I think if you gave the ship a great tank it would be OP, but if you gave it a mediocre tank, and range, it would be a good deal more balanced.

If you were introducing an exploration ship for each race, then T2 versions of the tier 2 or tier 3 battlecruiser hulls might be a good place to start, also, changing T3s, such as have been talked about might also be a good place. Perhaps give a T3 subsystem that gives the 100% damage bonus and takes away turrets/launchers, freeing up highslots for exploration modules.

If introducing faction ships, like an exploration version of the ORE mining ships, then cruiser sized hulls or slightly larger then cruiser sized would work.

I feel like a roughly BC sized ship in terms of absolute size would be good, since its large enough to be independent, but not so large as to be easily caught. I don't know if a covert ops cloak would be OP on such a ship, but it would be something to discuss.

So...discuss

So basically a mini-Marauder. Half the turrets, role bonus so you're basically fitting a full rack of guns. Hislots for salvagers/tractors, plentiful mids for hacker and analyzer. For Caldari and Minmatar you're looking at 6-8 mids to fit a shield tank, and for Gallente or Amarr you're looking at 5-6 because you're generally armor tanking.

But yeah. Cruiser or Battlecruiser-sized mini Marauder would work I think.

You can do exploration solo just fine with several different ships. The problem with a dedicated exploration ship is that all those extra slots would make it pretty OP in just regular PVP scenarios.

A marauder is essentially exactally what you need, except that its expensive and vulnerable.

But the fact that you're complaining about no ship working shows that you haven't really tried. I have spent a lot of time running exploration sites in null, and I've done it, for the most part, solo.

Because I like to be able to go afk without worries, one of my requirements was that I had a covops cloak.

I'll give you a hint, pick a cruiser hull that can fit a covops cloak, put on the required mods, and start playing around with fits.

If I did it, then you can do it too.

Basically I don't see how you can build an all-in-one explorer with two "extra" mid slots and decent combat capabilities without the shield ships being stupidly easy to overtank. I want something like this myself...I just don't see it working.

I think the solution lies along different lines.

Give the exploration ship an entirely different bonus, self sufficiency. You need a ship that is a swiss army knife; allow it to equip a special module with a medium longish cycle time that allows you to switch one fitted module per cycle.

This is something I generally agree with and genuinely want; a decent exploration ship. I've loved the idea of exploration as a solitary profession, just yourself and your wits. If I want adrenaline pumped action I go with factional warfare or incursions. Wormholes, exploration sites, it feels like it should be a solitary experience. This is the way I'd do it personally.

I'd make new Tech 2 Battlecruisers using the following hulls; Harbinger, Drake, Myrmidon, and Hurricane. These ships are all insanely popular, so a T2 variant would be exceptionally well received. On top of that both the Drake and Myrmidon are, as far as I'm aware, the go to cheap options for exploration (ie. if you don't want to go with a T3 Cruiser).

Much like with Command Ships and Recon Ships, I'd suggest 2 variations to the ships as it would give some variety and allow for people who approach exploration cautiously as well as those who approach it with combat in mind. A Combat Exploration Ship and a Covert Exploration Ship. The Combat Exploration Ship would be designed to be able to hold it's own in combat, while the covert is designed to better avoid combat all together.

Here are the bonuses I'd suggest.

For Combat Exploration Ships -

Battlecruiser Skill Bonus:
As the base hull only without the 99% reduction for Warfare Links.

Exploration Ships Skill Bonus:
20% reduction in CPU requirements for Electronics & Sensor Upgrades modules per level.

Role Bonus:
100% bonus to [insert preferred weapon] damage. (same as Marauder)

Give the Drake, Harbinger and Hurricane based ships 125m3 drone bay with 75Mbit/s bandwidth, give the Myrmidon based ship 300m3 drone bay with 125Mbit/s bandwidth.

These bonuses coupled with lack of turrets/launchers will mean that the ships are fitting less weapons, and will have more slots than their T1 counterparts to account for the larger number of needed modules, but CPU and Powergrid will be a limiting factor preventing overpowered super-tank fits in PvP. By giving these ships a baseline CPU and Powergrid that's 20% less than the original hull, the CPU simply won't allow for large shield tanks, and the Powegrid won't allow for excessive Armour buffer tanks. CPU though is needed for other things but with decent skills this can be offset for traditionally required exploration modules such as; Sensor Boosters, Targeting Systems, Tractor Beams, Cloaking Devices, Ship/Cargo Scanners, Salvagers, and most importantly Codebreakers and Analyzers which could all potentially be as much as 80% less on CPU (and most cost next to nothing Powergrid anyway) with the suggested Exploration Ships Skill Bonus.

These bonuses effectively encourage you to have a Codebreaker, Analyzer, Sensor Booster, and the traditional Afterburner/Microwarpdrive, Warp Disruptor/Scram and Shield Tank or Cap Restore as needed, rather than throwing on endless Shield modules as the latter won't fit.

The Harbinger based ship would have 8/6/7 with 3 Turrets
The Drake based ship would have 8/8/5 with 3 Launchers
The Hurricane based ship would have 8/6/7 with 3 Turrets
The Myrmidon based ship would have 7/7/7 with 3 Turrets

Each ship has gained 2 medium and 1 low slot. This would allow for a similar tank for each ship, some added flexability, but enough modules for the Codebreaker and Analyzer which are essential. The limit in weapons for the high slots would allow for other modules such as Probe Launchers, Salvagers, Tractor Beams, Cloaking Devices etc. or if fitting with PVP in mind, perhaps Drone Links, Smartbombs, Neuts or NOS, although CPU/Powergrid would limit this option somewhat.

For the covert exploration ships I would add "-96% to -100% reduced CPU need for cloaking device per level" to the Explorer Ships skill bonus and replace the 100% damage Role Bonus with a 100% bonus to ECM Burst strength and 25% reduction in Microwarpdrive capacitor use. This will give the Covert Exploration Ships a greater chance to break lock when targeted. More ability to burn out of warp bubbles etc. when needed. And the ability to warp while cloaked. However without the 100% damage bonus their DPS would be severely cut. The Amarr Covert Exploration Ship should be a Missile boat with 4 Launchers (most Covert Amarr ships follow Khanid designs). The Minmatar CE Ship should also be a Missile boat with 4 Launchers. Conversely the Caldari Covert Exploration ship should be a Hybrid Turret platform with 4 Turrets (as most Covert Caldari ships are Ishukone ships). The Gallente CE Ship should be the only one to have only 3 Turrets as it's primary weapon is it's drones anyway.

All in all I think these ships would be extremely fun to fly and would add a nice specialised route to take for explorers that makes sense and feels logical especially as, while Marauders can do this job, they simply feel wrong for it. Exploration feels like it's best suited for Cruiser and Battlecruiser size ships and in my opinion at least, Battleships simply feel too big, slow and unwieldy for the job.

Hopefully people like my idea, and maybe if I'm lucky CCP will take a look and decide they like it too. Obviously there's bound to be some balance issues, but these seem like decent starting points and don't appear broken for what they do. On the market today I'd reckon ships like these would settle at around the 350-400 Million ISK mark which is still less than a T3 Cruiser plus it's Subsystems which usually come in at around the 500 Million ISK mark. That seems about right to me for what they can do too.

Every ship in EVE is largely about comprimises. With the exception of some industrial type ships and mining barges there is no one ship that can do everything perfectly. Even mining cannot, as you can't have a mining barge with a huge tank AND huge ore bay at the same time.

Quite frankly I think this is perfect and largely by EVE design.

As a Gallente pilot I do have access to the best exploration ship in the game. The Ishtar is a swiss army knife, capable of carrying every possible exploration module, while still sporting enough tank and gank to run all but the hardest DED sites.

Except, in order to do that I have to be armor tanked, which means it largely sucks for Angels and Blood raiders.

As a gallente pilot, I could say similar to you. How many races have a cruiser class hull that slap down NPC's at 90km while also suffering no tracking issues up close (Tengu). And while you have a harder time with a Tengu due to the high slots, the only module you really lose out on is the salvager there. It is balanced by the fact that you can have a subsystem that makes scanning far better as an example.

As someone who also enjoys exploration, I would seriously hope CCP never tries to implement this.

While that may be an answer to the mechanics of how to achieve this, it still does not go to the root question of whether this should be done at all.

As I said in my post above, which I will restate. Everything in EVE is about compromise. There is no one ship that can do everything a player may want at the same time.

Shield tankers have to compromise on tackle and other mid slot utility mods
Armor tankers have to compromise on low slot utility, damage mods
Turret/missile ships have to compromise on high slot utility
Drone ships often have multiple compromises, as drone utility/damage mods fit in low mid and high slots.

You can be a miner, and choose between a ship that gives the best yield, or the best tank, or the best local storage. But not all at the same time.

You can choose salvaging as a mini profession, but you can't just use a noctis as you cannot tractor beam other peoples wrecks.

You can be an explorer, but you have to compromise whether you fit for some kinds of exploring or the other, but not necessarily all at the same time. You can codebreak/analyze/salvage. You can hunt down ladars. You can go for combat sites. But not necessarily be effective at all at the same time. IMO that seems in line with all of the other areas of EVE.

I'ts an essential part of what makes EVE, well EVE.

Not even close. Change occurs in EVE all the time. All of the balancing going on is causing change everywhere.

But there has always been an overriding common theme in EVE for forever, and that's the fact that there is no ship good at everything you want all the time. I don't expect CCP to change that anytime soon.

And again, it isn't anti change. Part of the wonderful flavor of EVE is we have these great ships with huge amounts of customization. So many mods to choose from. But you can never quite get everything you want. So you have to figure out fun and interesting ways to make it work.

Excuse me sir.

I think you are looking for this. Gnosis - Exploration battlecruiser screenshot

This is curruntly available on the test server ( singularity )