Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I have been in EvE off and on for close to 5 years now and I have seen the game go through a vast number of changes, improvements and a few let downs. Overall EvE has become a wonderful thing for some and a complete and total nightmare for thousands of others. This being a lack of separation between those that play EvE to interface with people all around the world in a Sci-Fi environment and wish to play against the computer based simulations and storyline (PvE playing style) and those that enjoy the combat/conflict aspects when it comes to live simulations with other players with similar tastes (PvP player style). But without a form of separation between these two drastic game playing styles, all too often the PvE player is forced into a PvP style game situation, thus ruining their experience. This is especially true when it comes to new pilots.

When I first came to EvE, it was to chat with other people and hopefully make new friends. I had no intention of getting involved in the PvP side of the game as I it is not my taste in a game. For this reason I created a corporation intended to be a place where other similar minded players could come, hang out, chat and get involved with the PvE portion of EvE and learn a little how the game mechanics worked. Unfortunately do to the lack of separation between the PvE community and the PvP community of players, many of the friends I have made over time no longer play EvE, and the reason for 95% of the ones that left was the same “I quit because I was tired of being forced to play EvE in a manor I did not enjoy and was not going to waste my hard earned money on something like that.” This accounts to over one hundred now gone pilots, how many thousands have left for the same reason and how many thousands will leave because of it. A separation of PvE vs. PvP needs to be established.

I have a few thoughts of how this might be done to create a form of separation, though I am sure many will find fault with the following, especially those that like to ‘gank’ new pilots or war dec a high sec corp just to be able to ‘gank’ people anywhere they so choose.

1) When a player starts out in EvE, as it is, the player has a protection that prevents people from firing upon them. This is fine, but once this time period is over, the pilot then would choose to proceed as a PvE player or a PvP player. If the person chooses PvP, once this is set it cannot be changed back to PvE.

2) Corporations when formed would have a choice of being PvE or PvP based. If PvE is chosen, they can only recruit other players that have the PvE setting; PvP corporations would get PvP based players. At any time a corporation could change to PvP, but like the player, once it is set to this style of game play, it cannot be changed back to PvE.

3) PvP players would find it more difficult to attack PvE players and vice versa in very high sec space (0.8, 0.9 and 1.0). If while in this region an attack would get a much faster and more sevear response from CONCORD. Systems that are 0.5, 0.6 and 0.7 would be a grey area where anything is possible (much like it is now in all high security regions) and low security areas 0.4 on down would be as it is now, free for all!

4) PvE players that venture into anything below 0.5 would be open game, and the PvE protection would not work. Once they returned to high sec space, they have to wait 24 hours before the protection starts back up (much like the cool down process for war decs and corporation changes).

5) The ISK cost to Declare War against a corporation or alliance is drastically out of proportion. Just like in real life, war is VERY expensive to start and maintain. A war declaration by a corporation against another should be more in the range of 25 million to 50 million ISK to start and maintain. A corporation or alliance declaration of war on another would be 100 million to 250 million ISK. This numbers are more realistic in terms.

6) A PvE corporation that intends to go PvP would need to consider the amount of skill points they have as a whole. Just because they lack the skills needed to be in a war would not be considered if they were to declare their corp as PvP prematurely.

This is just a few of the ways things could be done to protect the methods of play that many want in EvE and to gain that level of separation between PvE and PvP that is desperately needed. There are so many new players in EvE that joins a corporation to learn more about the games mechanics just to have their PvE designed corporation war declared against , then they get blown up time and time again because they do not know the game or have the skills to defend themselves, and what happens, they leave an never subscribe. Look at that other game WoW and how many subscribers they have (millions), and one reason is because a person has the choice of playing PvP or PvE, and one is never forced on the other.

Money is to tight these days not to want to keep players coming back and subscribing. I think if the above were incorporated in some way where there would be the 2 types of game play, everyone would be happy. Perhaps not the griefers that get their jollies by ruining game play for others, but then again who knows.

This sounds like exactly what the "High Sec" regions of space were intended for. Unfortunately, that game mechanic is now broken.

Highsec is not intended to be safe, no. It is most certainly intended to allow for people blowing each other to bits.

LOL, I don't know about all that, but EvE just needs to go back to how it was originally intended years back. High sec for PvE players, low sec for PvP players. Then there would no drama.

Hi OP. I don't want to quote your whole original post, so I'll just reply to your points in order.

First of all, I want to say that it's irrational to buy a sports coupe, and then complain to the manufacturer that you're unable to use it to transport heavy equipment, and demand that the product you bought should be modified to suit your needs; you should have bought a truck to begin with. The same goes for EVE.

You said the following in another post:



As a person who's played the game almost twice as long as you have, I can tell you that this isn't the case. In fact, "years back" it was intended to be a much harsher experience than it is today. I'll let you do your own research on this. It should be quite eye-opening. I can tell you for sure that CCP never meant to segregate player groups based on space security. You can take that to the bank.

So, back to your original post. Yes, this is a harsh game. You claim that its harshness is causing "hundreds" of players to leave. Yet, for as long as I can remember (until the very recent NEX fiasco), the player count has been rising exponentially. This means for every hundred players who decided to leave because the game is too unforgiving, more have stayed.

Now, to address your propositions:

1. While I don't mind giving true newbies a break, it should in no way be a permanent thing. Preventing harm to players on their 21-day trial, who remain in NPC corporations for that duration, is something that pvpers could live with. As far as having individual "pve" or "pvp" tags for players, well, this would greatly unbalance the game. The only way it would conceivably preserve the economy's integrity is if the tag was permanent (otherwise people could stockpile hundreds of billions in goods while being totally safe, then "tag out" and dump them on the pvp market), and the "pve" players would have a separate market from the "pvp" players. Over the long term, this means that the "pve" market would get saturated, and you'd be unable to make any money from industry, since no one needs to buy new ships or modules from lack of boom boom. Is this what you really want?

2. Same as above. Once again, tags are permanent, and markets are segregated.

3. This is already the way it is. Highest security space (.8 - 1.0) already has very quick CONCORD response time. Keep in mind, however, that quick CONCORD response can be circumvented by using more shooters. Besides, if "pve" players can't be attacked anyway (points 1 and 2), do we even need to tamper with CONCORD mechanics?

4. This is already the way it works. In fact, your cooldown isn't necessary.

5. Prices can (and probably should) be raised, but no distinction should be made between corporations and alliances, as sometimes the former have more players than the latter. Player count should be the proper metric for war bill calculation. See my proposal here.

6. This is something entirely up to player judgement.

To conclude, the point I'm trying to make here is that segregation, while possible, would be very bad for EVE online. It would completely change the game, and take away its unique nature. Your proposed changes would turn it into another generic MMO. "That level of separation between PvE and PvP" is not "desperately needed." It's just an unobjective demand by a few hundred/thousand people who want to change the game in their own image. Why should EVE be changed to resemble a generic MMO, when there are so many of those generic MMOs available for you to play? Why do you want to take away from us what we've worked for the better part of a decade to create? Would you take kindly to people entering your house and rearranging your furniture?

PS: I've played WoW almost as long as I've played EVE. You do know that the majority of servers are "pvp" servers, where you can get attacked anywhere, right? Sure, you can play on "pve" servers, but each server has its own separate economy. Also, WoW's economy isn't fueled by destruction; it's fueled by the devs making old gear outdated (and therefore useless). Comparing WoW to EVE is like comparing apples to ramen noodles; both are consumable, but that's about where the similarities end.

I'm flabbergasted.

I don't even know where to begin.

What PvE activity are you having such a hard time accomplishing without PvP interference?
1.) Its easy to mission without direct PvP interference. Join an NPC corp, and don't fly blingy ships.
2.) Its easy to research and manufacture without direct PvP interference. Join an NPC corp and use public S&I slots.
3.) You can even mine without much direct PvP interference. Running mining missions or mine the minerals in combat missions.

Are you ever 100% safe..... no, but you can reduce most of the risk to yourself by taking some effort to play safely.

What activities should you be able to do safely (as in, w/out significant threat of another player destroying your stuffs)?
and are you sure you're unable to do those fairly safely, or is it you feel doing it safely is somehow unfair?

Instead of PVE or PVP only, CCP should take a look at rolling them together (huge exspansion worth's of effort, PVE and PVP never should of been seperate cause you can't do both together). PVE ships just do not opperate as well as a PVP ship, so they have a huge disadvantage. Have you ever feard of a mission fit ship winning a can flipper? No, never going to happen because PVE ships lack scram, web, and omni-buffer while even a rifter can bring down a mighty BS trying to remote rep.

And then PVP ships actively seek PVE ships, cause its such an easy "I-Win!" for their precious little ego. Either they want that little gold sticker for a no challenge fight or they have a creepy fetish for of salty tasting tears sent to their mailbox kind of like erotic text to mentally masturbate to. I am not going to say its right or wrong, just that its so easy for these "tough hardcore" pros to bring down PVE ships, just as difficult for a PVE ship to bring down NPC.

Or at least let you tag a ship as PVE even though it wouldn't protect you. Basicly like a form of insurance, you pay for a 90 day duration where if someone ganks you it doesn't generate a killmail. Kind of like how the "trillions of isk" destroyed by PVE ships vs NPC pirates and no record of it. Gankers or flippers attack you, they get the loot but no killmail. I can see it now; One pirate saying to another "Yeah, I once destroyed a ship that dropped billions in loot" while the second goes "Proof or GTFO!" then the first goes "I have no killmail , stupid newb had KM protection." Real erection dropper when you hit them where it hurts...their pride of course, some guys hate it when you set self destruct so why not allow you to deny them the ability to get a KM