Science & Industry

No, it isn't. Lowsec ores are virtually worthless. You're better off mining Veldspar in highsec.

That's what I thought. That's why I invested a bunch of money in my little experiment: I figured that all those losec pirates and n'er-do-wells would need a local connect for minerals and manufactured items. I could charge a premium for being nearby, and could offer a competitive price on certain modules (neuts, warp scramblers, and the like).

But as it turns out...not so much. They just go to hisec like everyone else, or use hisec alts and contracts. Meanwhile, all the logistics hassles and lack of security in-system prevent mining and manufacturing from ramping up to any reasonable level.

I thought for awhile about trying it the other way: getting a lowsec path into null, and sell to null customers who don't want to travel all the way to hisec. One day I may try that strategy instead.

That's not a bad idea. I thought Rorquals were limited to nullspace only; I didn't know they could operate in low security space. (I should have done my research better! That's what I get for assuming....) A Rorq would also make a refining array less necessary. I'll think about this. Thanks for the info!

Ok, let me word it for a miner level of comprehension. After all exploration sites are finished in a low sec system that is good for ganks but not so much for anything else there used to be almost nothing to do because jet canning is really dumb. So now instead of just hanging around with probes out or cruising a few systems looking for more targets I can just hang in a belt and let the drills fill an ore hold. All the high sec ore is there too and my rocks are always huge and juicy no matter what they are. Hell, I got a faction scram last night off a belt rat...can I count that on my mining isk per/hr compared to your high sec veld?




There's your problem. No, you're not going to come in and rip me off on minerals because I'll just kill your crew and do it myself or like you said buy it in high sec and move it there myself. Discount minerals for your low sec buddies is what will work. Noone needs you choosing what mods and weapons will be needed at a discount.




(to the dude above. Yes supers can enter low sec and no you should not use a rorq unless you know what you're doing with it. I killed one sitting in a belt with a mining geddon a few days after the barge buffs.)

We use rorq's to ship ore around in Null too. It's cheaper than a jump freighter and most times I don't need the extra space.

"Industrial guy" is another way of saying "lazy miner". What I hear is there should be better ore in low sec (which he wouldn't be able to mine either with the way he's doing it) or nicer people (but he thinks what he is doing is special and will reward him with premium prices).

My only endeavor is hanging around a few systems and exploiting the resources they have for money. That includes the rocks these days as much as the foolhardy mission runners. And for the record I am an indy guy, lots of skills in PI with 2 characters running it, I mine in low sec belts and have okish skills to refine, my hauler alt uses a freighter to move stuff around, I build and sell ships.....etc. The only difference is I will shoot my competition rather than asking them to please leave me alone so I can mine. That's EvE industry not this afk spreadsheet gimcrackery.

This is what it boils down to. Those persons flying security, even assuming they could provide 100% security, could have been additional barges in a high sec operation. I love low sec mining ops because they can be fun, but they are not and cannot be as profitable as high sec.

This has revealed what everyone knows but will never admit. There are too many hunters for the prey. Its just like a out of wack ecosystem.

An actual fix to this out of wack eco system would be to have low setup like FW for each empire. For example, you as a player are in a starter corp for caldari, you are a 'privateer' for caldari. In their lowsec space you can engage their enemies but NOT their allies (at least not without penalty and those penalties are already there.) This would fit with the back story of eve, empires fighting empires.

Player corps and alliances would have to declare a empire like FW corps, but these would be privateer ratings, not military, the same rules as above apply, WITH the addition of the FW rules that you cant dock in a enemy station (and apply this to outlaws too above 0.5 security). Want to fight a corp/alliance in the same faction? declare war. Corps/alliances with players that shoot allies take a hit to their standings when a player does that.

What would this do? It would stop casual roamers of the same faction from hunting their own. It would lead to more diverse trade hubs. You could still gate camp, pirate, whatever, but it would have to make sense in the larger eve universe.

I just wanted to post a coda to this little adventure: I moved my POS to a .5 system out in a lonely backwater, and I found that my income more than tripled in a week -- mainly due to the ability to keep my mining barges out in the belts for a greater percentage of the time. For the negligible cost of some starbase charters, my mining outpost is finally making good ISK on a reliable basis. I've even decided to branch out into PI and small-scale manufacturing (mainly for personal consumption, since there aren't any trade hubs close to where I live).

One thing I've noticed: miners are chockablock in the central Empire systems, but the further out you go towards lowsec, the rarer the miners are. I'm not sure if this is due to the longer logistics chain or the perception of higher risk in .5 systems, but I'm beginning to wonder if the high trit and pye prices are simply because there aren't enough miners out there. I would have scoffed at this notion a few weeks ago, but now? Not so much. Getting rid of the botters and the drone poo took a lot of minerals out of the game. Good for me (more ISK!) but it means expensive minerals for manufacturers.

So here is my "lessons learned" summary from the past few weeks:

1. Lowsec is pointless from an industrial standpoint, unless you are in a large and active corp that can provide funding, security, and logistics.
2. The lower the security of a system, the better for mining...until you get to .5. Below .5, see point 1.
3. Profitable mining requires toons with high skills -- mining, astrogeology, mining barge, exhumers, refining, etc. All need to be at level V.
4. You need a freighter (or money to pay Red Frog) because to make a profit you have to sell in bulk.
5. A mining-outpost POS is very handy because it allows you to operate far from crowded systems. It also allows you do do other stuff (research, manufacturing). However, it entails large costs that your mining ops have to cover without killing your profit margin.
6. Orca support is vital if your corp is big enough, especially if you can't or don't want to set up a POS outpost. (Orcas are also great if you want to mine in certain missions because they can go through many deadspace gates that a barge can't -- so you just load your barges into your Orca and warp into the mission site to mine out all those tasty roids. "Break Their Will" is a mission where Orca support is almost a requirement if you want to mine out that belt.)
7. I'm still not sure the Mackinaw is really worth the ISK. A Retriever does damned near as good a job for a hell of a lot less ISK. Ditto the Covetor over the Hulk. You're going to have to mine for a long time to make up the difference in cost between a Retriever and a Mackinaw. And losing a Retriever to a ganker hurts a lot less than losing a Mack. And training-time to get into a Retriever/Covetor is a lot shorter than for exhumers.
8. Doing PI in parallel with your mining ops is a good way to augment your ISK for very little effort. You can train up your PI skills quickly, so it's not much of a hit. (And if you live in a POS, you can manufacture your own fuel.)

The upshot is that hisec mining as a profession is undergoing something of a renaissance these days. I'm actually making good ISK for the first time in forever. Mining no longer seems like such a chump's game.