These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Amarr Under powerd???

Author
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#21 - 2012-09-05 09:36:59 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
- reliance on Scorch, pulse lasers "suck" till you get scorch and then they're OP. It's not very well balanced


Oh, you mean like autocannons and Barrage...

Vilnius Zar wrote:
- useless bonuses on some Amarr ships (see Maller and Prophecy)


Maybe because CCP hasn't balanced cruisers and battlecruisers yet?


Yes, lets entirely forget that projectile ammo has damage type selection and some even have a tracking bonus, projectiles are super easy to fit, don't use cap and have good tracking to begin with

Also, lets forget that said bonuses have been around for years so we shouldn't at all use it as an argument, right?
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-09-05 09:51:44 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Yes, lets entirely forget that projectile ammo has damage type selection and some even have a tracking bonus, projectiles are super easy to fit, don't use cap and have good tracking to begin with

Also, lets forget that said bonuses have been around for years so we shouldn't at all use it as an argument, right?


Barrage is limited to explosive/kinetic damage.
Scorch is ~81% of EM and rest is thermal.

Both have penalty to tracking.

No reload time with laser crystals. Infinite T1 laser ammo.
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
420 MLG TWINTURBO 3000 EMPIRE ALLIANCE RELOADED
#23 - 2012-09-05 11:11:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Danny John-Peter
Star'''Knight wrote:


Pros
1. Range
2. Armor tank
3. Very nice ships here and there

Cons
1. **** cap
2. All the other diffrent fraction ships seam op
3. Tracking (OK for the Amarr Race but not with all the other cons)
4. Solo pvp Is normaly just a sad day unless you use a Pilgrim, Hevey assault ship, or Command ship mabey (never flown one)
5. Fleet pvp Would be great other from the point that no one seams to fly armor any more
6. When it dose come to range these days Caldari Seams to have just as much if not more with missiles
7. At the End It just sad to know that you wasted your SP trainning in such a point less race. Cry

I would like to Here coments on how other people thought of amarr after the nerf. And how they may use the Amarr ships.



So I am going to clear up all the bullshit in this post, and then from there...


1. Amarr actually have excellent base Capacitor, with decent skills and management they generally can run un-injected set ups, they also have free mids because of their armour taking nature, for injectors.
2. Angel ships are OP, that doesnt count, Amarr probably have the two best faction BS, the best faction Frig, a decent Faction Cruiser and a FREAKING AWESOME Pirate BS Hull.
3. They have issues with tracking yes, however they gain awesome damage projection, Amarr rule the short-mid ranges.
4. Solo, I will grant you there are better races for this, however there are still plenty of options, there frigates are generally excellent, the Zealot is challenging but powerful, the Harb has excellent projection and a few others, Abso is pretty good too I hear.
5. No, Just No, you must live in High Sec, Amarr Fleet Ships

Damnation
Guardian (Best armour Logi)
Abaddon (Hellcat Fleets)
Zealots/Legion (ABHACs)
Beam Zealots (Basically ABHACs that **** Drakes because of the improved range)
Navy Geddon (S2N NIG, bascially pumped up Hellcats)
Navy Apoc (R&K & PL NAVPOC Fleets http://www.evenews24.com/2012/09/03/ask-dr-fit-foxcat-a-cat-to-kill-another-cat/)
Oracle (Both Shield and Armor variants)
Curse (Excellent small gang boat)
Archon (THE BEST CARRIER IN THE GAME BY A LONG LONG LONG STRETCH)
Rev (Decent Damage and Projection)

A fair few I have probably forgotten.

6. Clearly you have never seen a Hellcat/Navpoc/NIG/ fleet fight a Drake blob
7. Your ********


Any questions (and yes I'm CVA, but I am Minmatar, so I get to see both side of the argument)
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#24 - 2012-09-05 11:25:21 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Yes, lets entirely forget that projectile ammo has damage type selection and some even have a tracking bonus, projectiles are super easy to fit, don't use cap and have good tracking to begin with

Also, lets forget that said bonuses have been around for years so we shouldn't at all use it as an argument, right?


Barrage is limited to explosive/kinetic damage.
Scorch is ~81% of EM and rest is thermal.

Both have penalty to tracking.

No reload time with laser crystals. Infinite T1 laser ammo.


I see you avoided the actual points I mentioned.
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
420 MLG TWINTURBO 3000 EMPIRE ALLIANCE RELOADED
#25 - 2012-09-05 12:40:37 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:

I see you avoided the actual points I mentioned.



I see you avoided mine.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#26 - 2012-09-05 12:45:39 UTC
What's to avoid, both Scorch as Barrage having fixed damage types and a tracking penalty? how is this a ground breaking discovery?
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
420 MLG TWINTURBO 3000 EMPIRE ALLIANCE RELOADED
#27 - 2012-09-05 12:54:45 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
What's to avoid, both Scorch as Barrage having fixed damage types and a tracking penalty? how is this a ground breaking discovery?



My good half page long post mitigating basically all your points?
Maeltstome
Academy of the Unseen Arts
The Potato Alliance
#28 - 2012-09-05 12:57:09 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Yes, lets entirely forget that projectile ammo has damage type selection and some even have a tracking bonus, projectiles are super easy to fit, don't use cap and have good tracking to begin with

Also, lets forget that said bonuses have been around for years so we shouldn't at all use it as an argument, right?


Barrage is limited to explosive/kinetic damage.
Scorch is ~81% of EM and rest is thermal.

Both have penalty to tracking.

No reload time with laser crystals. Infinite T1 laser ammo.


I see you avoided the actual points I mentioned.


Damage selection doesn't exist in T2 minmatar ammo. It's all Exp/Kin. T1 has been recently changed to have 3 range tiers for the different damage types, however this is NOT like caldari. The damage is still mixed. Exp and Kin feature heavily in all minmatar ammo.

P.s. the 'tracking bonus' is basically non existant. it's just another way of saying "This ammo nerfs your tracking by not bonusing it". The guns tracking is balanced accordingly.
Meditril
Lummerland GmbH
#29 - 2012-09-05 13:21:24 UTC
Oh no... not this discussion again.

Since when is the Slicer underpowered? Malediction is one of the best tackling frigates... and Vengance and Retribution are awesome... one for the tank and the other for the DPS output. Pilgrim and especially the Curse are overhelming nand Amarr BS are well known to be the best of large fleet fight. I really have no idea what you are talking about. Try and fly some other races and then you will see that those also suffer from many issues.
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
420 MLG TWINTURBO 3000 EMPIRE ALLIANCE RELOADED
#30 - 2012-09-05 13:23:28 UTC
Meditril wrote:
Oh no... not this discussion again.

Since when is the Slicer underpowered? Malediction is one of the best tackling frigates... and Vengance and Retribution are awesome... one for the tank and the other for the DPS output. Pilgrim and especially the Curse are overhelming nand Amarr BS are well known to be the best of large fleet fight. I really have no idea what you are talking about. Try and fly some other races and then you will see that those also suffer from many issues.



And hes UK, I mean Jeeze, if they say Amarr are good CCP must be doing something right.




Obligatory; http://www.amarrvictor.com/
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#31 - 2012-09-05 14:06:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Maeltstome wrote:
Damage selection doesn't exist in T2 minmatar ammo. It's all Exp/Kin. T1 has been recently changed to have 3 range tiers for the different damage types, however this is NOT like caldari. The damage is still mixed. Exp and Kin feature heavily in all minmatar ammo.

P.s. the 'tracking bonus' is basically non existant. it's just another way of saying "This ammo nerfs your tracking by not bonusing it". The guns tracking is balanced accordingly.


- I never stated Barrage has damage type selection, it got brought it up as a "counter" (which equated to "well 1+1=2 so HAH!")
- it's not "heavily featured", PP has no explosive at all and is 80% thermal, EMP is 70+ % EM damage, while not pure damage types it's very nice. Also, "recently" is 2009
- you do know there's 2 T1 ammo types (granted medium dps, spread damage type) that add 20% tracking right?
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
420 MLG TWINTURBO 3000 EMPIRE ALLIANCE RELOADED
#32 - 2012-09-05 14:11:51 UTC
Ill just copy/paste what I actually said, since you obviously missed it.


So I am going to clear up all the bullshit in this post, and then from there...


1. Amarr actually have excellent base Capacitor, with decent skills and management they generally can run un-injected set ups, they also have free mids because of their armour taking nature, for injectors.
2. Angel ships are OP, that doesnt count, Amarr probably have the two best faction BS, the best faction Frig, a decent Faction Cruiser and a FREAKING AWESOME Pirate BS Hull.
3. They have issues with tracking yes, however they gain awesome damage projection, Amarr rule the short-mid ranges.
4. Solo, I will grant you there are better races for this, however there are still plenty of options, there frigates are generally excellent, the Zealot is challenging but powerful, the Harb has excellent projection and a few others, Abso is pretty good too I hear.
5. No, Just No, you must live in High Sec, Amarr Fleet Ships

Damnation
Guardian (Best armour Logi)
Abaddon (Hellcat Fleets)
Zealots/Legion (ABHACs)
Beam Zealots (Basically ABHACs that **** Drakes because of the improved range)
Navy Geddon (S2N NIG, bascially pumped up Hellcats)
Navy Apoc (R&K & PL NAVPOC Fleets http://www.evenews24.com/2012/09/03/ask-dr-fit-foxcat-a-cat-to-kill-another-cat/)
Oracle (Both Shield and Armor variants)
Curse (Excellent small gang boat)
Archon (THE BEST CARRIER IN THE GAME BY A LONG LONG LONG STRETCH)
Rev (Decent Damage and Projection)

A fair few I have probably forgotten.

6. Clearly you have never seen a Hellcat/Navpoc/NIG/ fleet fight a Drake blob
7. Your ********
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#33 - 2012-09-05 14:12:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
What's to avoid, both Scorch as Barrage having fixed damage types and a tracking penalty? how is this a ground breaking discovery?



My good half page long post mitigating basically all your points?


I simply stated a list of "issues" amarr has, which are factual. I never stated amarr as a whole to be "bad" nor did I dispute your statements, also unless the other guy is your alt I wasn't even replying to you.

Also, your 2nd point is hilarious; "angel is pirate faction so doesn't count but goddamn the Nightmare is awesome so THERE!"
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
420 MLG TWINTURBO 3000 EMPIRE ALLIANCE RELOADED
#34 - 2012-09-05 14:15:32 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
What's to avoid, both Scorch as Barrage having fixed damage types and a tracking penalty? how is this a ground breaking discovery?



My good half page long post mitigating basically all your points?


I simply stated a list of "issues" amarr has, which are factual. I never stated amarr as a whole to be "bad" nor did I dispute your statements, also unless the other guy is your alt I wasn't even replying to you.

Also, your 2nd point is hilarious; "angel is pirate faction so doesn't count but goddamn the Nightmare is awesome so THERE!"


Bhaalghorns bro, Bhaalgorns.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#35 - 2012-09-05 14:16:32 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
What's to avoid, both Scorch as Barrage having fixed damage types and a tracking penalty? how is this a ground breaking discovery?



My good half page long post mitigating basically all your points?


I simply stated a list of "issues" amarr has, which are factual. I never stated amarr as a whole to be "bad" nor did I dispute your statements, also unless the other guy is your alt I wasn't even replying to you.

Also, your 2nd point is hilarious; "angel is pirate faction so doesn't count but goddamn the Nightmare is awesome so THERE!"


Bhaalghorns bro, Bhaalgorns.


still stands, you don't count angel ships but you do count bloodraider? Sounds like you're not exactly capable of being unbiased.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-09-05 15:08:20 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
I see you avoided the actual points I mentioned.


You mean the fact that all weapon systems have different advantages and disadvantages?

Laser tracking is fixed in some hulls. Check Coercer and Crusader.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#37 - 2012-09-05 16:07:09 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
I see you avoided the actual points I mentioned.


You mean the fact that all weapon systems have different advantages and disadvantages?

Laser tracking is fixed in some hulls. Check Coercer and Crusader.


So that whole list of downsides I stated is made up for by "oh look at the Coercer and Crusader, those get a tracking bonus!"? Apart from the fact that tracking is hardly the main issue lasers have, the Coercer and Crusader aren't exactly core/main ships in the Amarr line up, now are they.

You really have to get better and more logical arguments.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#38 - 2012-09-05 16:42:56 UTC
Paikis wrote:
I saw the thread title and LOLd. Then I read the thread and LOLd again.

then I read your comment and rofled

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-09-05 17:06:10 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
So that whole list of downsides I stated is made up for by "oh look at the Coercer and Crusader, those get a tracking bonus!"? Apart from the fact that tracking is hardly the main issue lasers have, the Coercer and Crusader aren't exactly core/main ships in the Amarr line up, now are they.

You really have to get better and more logical arguments.


If tracking isn't an issue then why are you whining and for what reasons?
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#40 - 2012-09-05 17:10:16 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
So that whole list of downsides I stated is made up for by "oh look at the Coercer and Crusader, those get a tracking bonus!"? Apart from the fact that tracking is hardly the main issue lasers have, the Coercer and Crusader aren't exactly core/main ships in the Amarr line up, now are they.

You really have to get better and more logical arguments.


If tracking isn't an issue then why are you whining and for what reasons?


Which part of "is hardly the main issue" don't you understand?

Try harder or just, you know, stop?