Market Discussions

think a lot of it is just experience like tradeing you get your fingures burned every now and then and you learn. but always make sure you ask for collateral that will give you back a minimal of what you invest.

the safest investments are collateralised for that you can expect to get a return of 5% or lower. for grendell's bonds he runs you only get 2-3%. if you invested in uncollaterised you would probly get 10% or so but high risk. you need to know or find out a persons history before investing, all of these tips should help you to find a safe investment.

Investing in EVE is like investing in stocks. Don't put all your eggs in one basket, if it flips you'll lose it all. Also old rule of thum, if it is too good to be true most likely mean it isn't true. :)

I see plenty of bonds and investments announced in MD, so pick few most trustworthy/long running and invest 500M - 1B for few of those and collect profits from them. If one of those goes awol you take only small hit while other investments could prosper.

There are different types of investment opportunities floating around, the majority of which are offered and promoted here on MD. It depends on your appetite for risk as to what you will favour. As it happens there arent so many opportunities (or at least good ones) around at the moment compared to a couple of years ago, but activity comes and goes. I would categorize the different types roughly as follows.


1. I want some ISK, I have X assets worth Y as collateral.

Generally one of the safer types of investment, but you have to be happy with the collateral as there is still risk attached due to fluctuating values of the assets. There may be a third party involved holding the collateral. It is largely irrelevant what the borrower needs to ISK for.

Interest rates can start off being offered quite high (usually because the borrower doesn't really know the lending market and the cost of capital) , but by the time the deal is done it is unlikely that the rate will be over 5%. There is a demand for good investments, and investors often compete by offering lower rates than the borrower has started his offering with. Rates are often lower where there is a third party involved, as they need to take their cut, but it is usually less hassle and a little less risky for the Investor.


2. I want a load of ISK to trade with. I will make a ton of ISK because I know what I am doing and I will pay a big dividend/rate of interest. High risk/High Reward

These bonds are generally uncollateralised. Trading generates big returns and borrowers can afford to pay good rates. Trading bonds are often pitched at around 10% pm. Historically, rates of up to 30% have been paid but these are not so common now. Bond runners who are successful in operating a trading bond sometimes run more bonds as a follow up and start to reduce the rates because they have generated interest and a degree of trust from the community.

Risk is simple, that the borrower walks away with your money. No recourse for you. You pay your money you take your chance. The only thing that can be verified in this situation is competency. It can be proved that the borrower at least knows how to trade and make money by a review of their trading history - sometimes done by a third party, providing an audit with API information.

3. I want some ISK to run an operation and need the money for working capital and assets. I may be willing to put the assets under a third party control as collateral.

Production/Invention etc operations that aren’t as active as trading operations don’t provide the same returns, so rates of interest on these are often lower. It is sometimes balanced by full or partial collateral in the form of a trusted third party controlling the assets and giving access to them to the borrower.

These aren’t so common any more, and where they do come up, they tend to be fully funded by the third party in any case so they are more of a private arrangement. In the past this type of operation was often run as an IPO. The investment would be an equity one, the value of your share may increase (or decrease), and you would receive dividends instead of a set interest rate. There haven’t been many of these for a while.

4. I am Grendell. I have a dude who wants a loan, and he has collateral. I am the face of this bond. No more details, the rate offered is X.

Hotcakes. Even though X can be as low as 1.5%. Nothing attracts ISK faster than trust and reputation. Easy low hassle investment, about as secure as you are going to get (which, by the way, is still not 100%).

Whilst there are other trusted third parties out there, Grendell is the primary large investment source on MD.

5. I want to buy a character can somebody lend me the ISK? / My ship got blown up and I need the money to buy another / I need ISK for PLEX I will pay back I promise.

Rates vary. Success varies, though usually just varying from no chance to a very slim chance. These investments are just a punt. They are different to other investments where people are borrowing money which they will employ to make money. They are lending someone money for them to buy something they want, hoping they have the decency to pay you back. They are usually supported by a weak argument along the lines of ‘if I buy this char I will make loads of money’, or ‘I can earn X in a week missioning with the new ship’. Be very wary of these.

6. Offers outside of MD – buy shares in my corp and get dividends etc

Be wary of anything that is offered outside this forum. The simple reason is that MD has evolved to be a crowd of analytical sceptical investors and interested parties who will challenge and pick apart anything that does not look good (and often anything that does look good as well). The community also serves to help shape offerings into something more palatable or much improved. Without this scrutiny, offerers/borrowers can do any say what they want with no place for investors to review and assess.

I am not saying only investments on MD are legit. They are not. But they have a better chance of being legit if they run the gauntlet here.

As in the posts above, dont put all your eggs in one basket, especially if you are going to go for high risk investments. Consider what you want to make as a return and if you can do something passive yourself that gives you that return. If like me, you can't be bothered, then investing in others is an option but be wary of the risk. There are no mechanics to allow you to get your money back if things turn bad, if you let your money out of your wallet and dont get something in return, know that it is a gamble. The current state of the investment market is mediocre. There is not a huge amount of opportunities available and there is a lot of demand. Good offerings get snapped up quickly so keep your eye out, but equally do not be a sheep - make your own mind up.

Hope this helps with your investing. Good Luck.

Thank you for your help everyone. Now it's time to try investing out....