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I'm so madbutthurtfrusrated.
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Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#1 - 2012-09-03 15:07:15 UTC
Alright, I am at a loss right now. Almost lost my missioning ship on a level 4 mission. Here is my problem. This is probably going to make alot of people lol at me. I see tons of people who can do a level 4 and not even break 95% of their shield, and bbq everything in site. Me on the other hand get my shield blown away, and my armor chewed thru, even tho I trained all my armor comps to four and I'm using a meta 9 large armor repair. So my question is, what skills do I need to do lvl4 missions in an Amarr ship.Ugh

tldr: Want skills do I need to do l4s, as an Amarr. Don't want start from scratch and start training tons of Hybrid weapon skills or whatever.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-09-03 15:19:50 UTC
A better idea would be to go ahead and post what ship you are using, and what fit you are using, and what the dps/tank is with your skills.

And then post what hardeners you were using and which mission did this to you.

Post that info and we can tell you what you're doing wrong, otherwise, I recommend you do a google search to find one of the millions of threads talking about amarr ships in lvl 4's.

-Arazel
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#3 - 2012-09-03 15:42:21 UTC
Abaddon, I using t2 hardeners. I change them out depending on the mission. I'm using t1 large pulse guns. Its pretty much 80% of the missions that have swarms of fleets that all lock on upon warp. I think my biggest issue is my tank. No matter what I do my tank can't handle all the dps.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-09-03 15:42:31 UTC
Arazel Chainfire wrote:
A better idea would be to go ahead and post what ship you are using, and what fit you are using, and what the dps/tank is with your skills.

And then post what hardeners you were using and which mission did this to you.

Post that info and we can tell you what you're doing wrong, otherwise, I recommend you do a google search to find one of the millions of threads talking about amarr ships in lvl 4's.

-Arazel


+1

Can't help without details. Therefore until then all was can do is LOLCool
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-09-03 16:08:21 UTC
For one thing, you need drones - full flights of lights and mediums, preferably Tech II. You need to have Drones V and Drone Interfacing to at least III to amp them up enough to take down frigates and cruisers, and other drone support skills won't hurt, either. Bring Scout Drone Interfacing to V and train Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing as soon as you have a chance, as those will increase your drone control range; Drone Durability will help your drones last longer.

One of the things about Level 4 missions is that the lighter ships can easily get under your guns and peck you to death, and battleship guns as a rule aren't very effective on anything short of a battlecruiser (unless you have something like a target painter on them).

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#6 - 2012-09-03 17:06:13 UTC
Marc Callan wrote:
For one thing, you need drones - full flights of lights and mediums, preferably Tech II. You need to have Drones V and Drone Interfacing to at least III to amp them up enough to take down frigates and cruisers, and other drone support skills won't hurt, either. Bring Scout Drone Interfacing to V and train Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing as soon as you have a chance, as those will increase your drone control range; Drone Durability will help your drones last longer.

One of the things about Level 4 missions is that the lighter ships can easily get under your guns and peck you to death, and battleship guns as a rule aren't very effective on anything short of a battlecruiser (unless you have something like a target painter on them).



I got drones to V. Also I can use t2 scout drones. So I should use scout drones over ogres? For my hardeners I use two t2 variants depending on the mission. and than I have a true sansha adaptive nano plating.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

mxzf
Shovel Bros
#7 - 2012-09-03 17:24:28 UTC
Kult Altol wrote:
Marc Callan wrote:
For one thing, you need drones - full flights of lights and mediums, preferably Tech II. You need to have Drones V and Drone Interfacing to at least III to amp them up enough to take down frigates and cruisers, and other drone support skills won't hurt, either. Bring Scout Drone Interfacing to V and train Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing as soon as you have a chance, as those will increase your drone control range; Drone Durability will help your drones last longer.

One of the things about Level 4 missions is that the lighter ships can easily get under your guns and peck you to death, and battleship guns as a rule aren't very effective on anything short of a battlecruiser (unless you have something like a target painter on them).



I got drones to V. Also I can use t2 scout drones. So I should use scout drones over ogres? For my hardeners I use two t2 variants depending on the mission. and than I have a true sansha adaptive nano plating.


Yes, you should definitely use scouts over ogres. Always have atleast a set of meds on any mission BS (preferably a set of lights and meds if you have the drone room). The slightly higher EFT DPS from having Heavies doesn't mean anything compared to the lights/meds actually being able to hit all those small targets.
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#8 - 2012-09-03 17:36:06 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Kult Altol wrote:
Marc Callan wrote:
For one thing, you need drones - full flights of lights and mediums, preferably Tech II. You need to have Drones V and Drone Interfacing to at least III to amp them up enough to take down frigates and cruisers, and other drone support skills won't hurt, either. Bring Scout Drone Interfacing to V and train Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing as soon as you have a chance, as those will increase your drone control range; Drone Durability will help your drones last longer.

One of the things about Level 4 missions is that the lighter ships can easily get under your guns and peck you to death, and battleship guns as a rule aren't very effective on anything short of a battlecruiser (unless you have something like a target painter on them).



I got drones to V. Also I can use t2 scout drones. So I should use scout drones over ogres? For my hardeners I use two t2 variants depending on the mission. and than I have a true sansha adaptive nano plating.


Yes, you should definitely use scouts over ogres. Always have atleast a set of meds on any mission BS (preferably a set of lights and meds if you have the drone room). The slightly higher EFT DPS from having Heavies doesn't mean anything compared to the lights/meds actually being able to hit all those small targets.


Cool thanks. Is it possible to steam roll l4s in a t1 BS, Or do you pretty much have to get a Navy or t2 variant?

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Ifly Uwalk
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-09-03 18:10:58 UTC
Kult Altol wrote:
swarms of fleets that all lock on upon warp.

You need to learn about triggers, when to shoot them and when not.
Adam Junior
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-09-03 19:05:20 UTC
Kult Altol wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Kult Altol wrote:
Marc Callan wrote:
For one thing, you need drones - full flights of lights and mediums, preferably Tech II. You need to have Drones V and Drone Interfacing to at least III to amp them up enough to take down frigates and cruisers, and other drone support skills won't hurt, either. Bring Scout Drone Interfacing to V and train Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing as soon as you have a chance, as those will increase your drone control range; Drone Durability will help your drones last longer.

One of the things about Level 4 missions is that the lighter ships can easily get under your guns and peck you to death, and battleship guns as a rule aren't very effective on anything short of a battlecruiser (unless you have something like a target painter on them).



I got drones to V. Also I can use t2 scout drones. So I should use scout drones over ogres? For my hardeners I use two t2 variants depending on the mission. and than I have a true sansha adaptive nano plating.


Yes, you should definitely use scouts over ogres. Always have atleast a set of meds on any mission BS (preferably a set of lights and meds if you have the drone room). The slightly higher EFT DPS from having Heavies doesn't mean anything compared to the lights/meds actually being able to hit all those small targets.


Cool thanks. Is it possible to steam roll l4s in a t1 BS, Or do you pretty much have to get a Navy or t2 variant?


You can easily run level 4 missions in a T1 BS. Also I think you should use more hardeners, I fit 4 on my AFK-Domi.
Sturmwolke
#11 - 2012-09-03 19:17:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
Armor tanking for missions is a bit more difficult than shield tanking. In addition, the Abaddon hull isn't very friendly to players with low skills.
Aggro management in L4 is critical because armor ships (in general) will not be able to match the high burst dps of a whole room (unlike shields).

Try a friendlier hull like the Apoc/Apoc Navy, beam fitted. Dps isn't spectacular, but it's easier to handle.
T2 pulse Armageddon/Armageddon Navy is ok'ish (beam version will encounter serious PG issue for the base T1 hull), it eats crystals at a high rate - which can get annoying.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#12 - 2012-09-03 19:47:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Sturmwolke wrote:
Armor tanking for missions is a bit more difficult than shield tanking. In addition, the Abaddon hull isn't very friendly to players with low skills.
Aggro management in L4 is critical because armor ships (in general) will not be able to match the high burst dps of a whole room (unlike shields).

Try a friendlier hull like the Apoc/Apoc Navy, beam fitted. Dps isn't spectacular, but it's easier to handle.
T2 pulse Armageddon/Armageddon Navy is ok'ish (beam version will encounter serious PG issue for the base T1 hull), it eats crystals at a high rate - which can get annoying.


This. Apocs are much, much easier to work with with low skills. Abaddons are niche ships that are ok in tach fits but are otherwise overshadowed in PvE by Nightmares and Paladins, either of which should be in easy reach once you can actually competently fit/fly an Abaddon.

Additionally, T1 pulses and damn near any Amarr mission BS aren't going to work. Pulses just don't have the range you need to swat things effectively. They are also highly susceptible to NPC tracking disruption (featured in many Sansha and some Blood Raider missions) because for reasons lost to time NPC TDs reduce optimal and tracking but not falloff. Because pulses rely almost entirely on optimal range, they are hit much harder by NPC TDs than any other weapon system, beams included.

If you want to use an Amarr BS for missions, do it. But I'd suggest looking at something more along these lines:


[Apocalypse, basic semi-tanky mishin t1 guns]
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Power Diagnostic System II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Medium Armor Repairer II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

The MAR is there to help you cope with burst damage and isn't meant as primary tank. Play around with it; it isn't the world's very best Apoc fit but it should get the job done provided the job is missions with relatively low skills.

As for drones: yes, use lights. The most important job drones do in missions is clear any frigates scram/web you. The second job is to clear out the rest of the frigates. Beyond that, they are just more utility damage.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-09-03 23:25:51 UTC
listen to what zhilia said. and while you're rocking your apoc, train up for nightmare.

I should buy an Ishtar.
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#14 - 2012-09-03 23:51:34 UTC
I was missionning with my main last year using a pulse T1 abaddon. Now, i'm doing mission using my alt in a nightmare with faction beam. I must say the difference is...well, my nightmare simply **** everything where the abaddon wasn't THAT great. I had a hard time doing angel extrazanga with my abaddon, but with my nightmare, it's really a joke. Same with world collide. and the nigthmare has amazing tracking (even with beam).

If you have enough isk, buy a nightmare and if you fit a salvager/tractor beam, you can salvage/loot bs wreck at the same time. And where are you missionning?
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#15 - 2012-09-04 09:05:43 UTC
Thanks for all the tips, will train up to the nightmare. Can't remember the system name off the top of my head. buts its in amarr space.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Chimpy B
The Philosophy Of Two
#16 - 2012-09-04 10:08:18 UTC
Kult Altol wrote:
Thanks for all the tips, will train up to the nightmare. Can't remember the system name off the top of my head. buts its in amarr space.

An Abaddon is fine for L4 amarr missions, I think you just need to

a) use light drones to take out the frigates asap
b) read http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports and be careful not to pull to much in one go.
Aris Tarchos
The Sagan Clan
#17 - 2012-09-04 11:51:29 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
[Additionally, T1 pulses and damn near any Amarr mission BS aren't going to work.


They work just fine on the apoc
Scoto Timta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-09-04 15:16:11 UTC
Kult Altol wrote:
Alright, I am at a loss right now. Almost lost my missioning ship on a level 4 mission. Here is my problem. This is probably going to make alot of people lol at me. I see tons of people who can do a level 4 and not even break 95% of their shield, and bbq everything in site. Me on the other hand get my shield blown away, and my armor chewed thru, even tho I trained all my armor comps to four and I'm using a meta 9 large armor repair. So my question is, what skills do I need to do lvl4 missions in an Amarr ship.Ugh

tldr: Want skills do I need to do l4s, as an Amarr. Don't want start from scratch and start training tons of Hybrid weapon skills or whatever.


Good advice has been given, so I won't repeat that stuff. But as someone who lost a few mission BS early on, I have a few questions based on mistakes I made plus a few things you said here.

1) Have you trained the support gunnery skills? Things like Motion Prediction, Rapid Firing, Sharpshooter, etc... They will make you much more effective at actually hitting things. And Controlled Bursts will be important for your laser boat.

2) For Amarr ships that are so cap-hungry in particular, how are your capacitor skills (Energy Management, Energy Systems Op)? Can you perma-run your LAR?

3) You mention that you trained your compensation skills to 4, and in another post you mentioned using a plating. Sounds to me like you are using passive hardener mods. Use active hardeners. They give better resists, and for PVE you really want solid resistances. Even if you have to downgrade your guns slightly or even drop 1 to get the PG/CPU - do it.

4) You sound like you are concerned that your shield is "blown away". Of course it is, and you shouldn't care. You are in an armor-tank boat. Shield is meaningless.

5) Related to #3, if you find that you are having issues with fitting (PG/CPU), be sure that you have Weapon Upgrades to 5 and Advanced Weapon Upgrades to 4 (5 at some point).

For PVE, especially early on in a pilot's career, focus your fit on tank first, then dps. As you get better skills/experience, you can start shifting the fit for more dps and less tank.
In case you are warping in and sitting still, you can reduce the incoming dps by always moving "sideways" to the guys shooting at you (messes with their tracking). Warp in and align to a planet or whatever, and start shooting. Get aggro from the frigs, then launch your light drones to kill them. Once the frigs are dead, you will be able to warp out as needed.
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#19 - 2012-09-04 15:41:40 UTC
Quote:
1) Have you trained the support gunnery skills? Things like Motion Prediction, Rapid Firing, Sharpshooter, etc... They will make you much more effective at actually hitting things. And Controlled Bursts will be important for your laser boat.


Yes, have not done control bust quite yet I believe.

Quote:
2) For Amarr ships that are so cap-hungry in particular, how are your capacitor skills (Energy Management, Energy Systems Op)? Can you perma-run your LAR?


Yes, all cap skills at V. Can't perma-run LAR tho.

Quote:
3) You mention that you trained your compensation skills to 4, and in another post you mentioned using a plating. Sounds to me like you are using passive hardener mods. Use active hardeners. They give better resists, and for PVE you really want solid resistances. Even if you have to downgrade your guns slightly or even drop 1 to get the PG/CPU - do it.


I'm using the active hardeners, the ones you have to turn on. Also using a sansha true nano plating to boost all my resists up.

Quote:
4) You sound like you are concerned that your shield is "blown away". Of course it is, and you shouldn't care. You are in an armor-tank boat. Shield is meaningless.


You're right, but my armor is chewed thru moderately fast as well. With hardeners on.

Quote:
5) Related to #3, if you find that you are having issues with fitting (PG/CPU), be sure that you have Weapon Upgrades to 5 and Advanced Weapon Upgrades to 4 (5 at some point).


No problems fitting anything. Have PW/CPU to spare.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#20 - 2012-09-04 15:47:08 UTC
Aris Tarchos wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
[Additionally, T1 pulses and damn near any Amarr mission BS aren't going to work.


They work just fine on the apoc


No, they work alright on an Apoc. They don't work as well as a meta 4 mega beam setup and they certainly don't work as well as a T2 mega pulse setup.
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