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Advice: Learning about fittings

First post
CCP Fallout
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2011-10-14 16:47:13 UTC
Arguably, one of the more difficult and intricate aspects of EVE Online is ship fittings. If you are a new player, you don't have a lot of financial resources to test out different fittings, or find out what works and what doesn't in myriad situations and professions. What are the various ways that one can learn how to be successful at fitting their ship? What sites or tools have been most helpful for you? What other tips do you have for the novice ship fitter?

CCP Fallout Associate Community Manager EVE Online @ccp_fallout

Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#2 - 2011-10-14 17:00:27 UTC
EFT, no doubt has been my life saver since I started. for a while I actually spent more time playing with it, than actually playing Eve Big smile
Tir Capital Management Group
#3 - 2011-10-14 18:05:26 UTC

Only one thing I have to say to new trial citizens as they come in.

Everyone has their own initial perception of the EVE "Spaceship". It comes from other Spaceship games they've played. Whether Star Wars, Star Trek, Wing Commander, Battlestar Galactica, whatever. This bias is a lot of fun to work with, and as you get sucked into EVE, you'll appreciate EVE much more. Your ship truly does become "yours".

There are ships of mine that if I give to another person they could never fly correctly and would die in a horrible fire - but are knock out successes for me.

EVE fitting won't necessarily make sense initially when you approach it from a "Biased" perception of those other brands or games. It is in many ways more empowering than you realize. There are many tricks you can put up your sleeve. The "Flavors Of The Month" that you will hear and see about are exactly that. More importantly, there truly are "WRONG!" ways to fit your ship, but there are even more ways that people will tell you is "wrong", but really can work for you and your style. Experiment.

In the end, despite that, I still wish we had more awesome and unique "niche" modules to play with that would give the crafty fitting expert ways to fool their opponents.

Oh, and EVERY new player does this, so please learn to not do this as soon as possible (even I did it over 7! years ago) :

Choose either SHIELD defenses or ARMOR defenses. Each has their benefits, but both together is a disaster.

Where I am.

Phantom Slave
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2011-10-14 19:12:54 UTC
On the note of EFT (eve fitting tool), I would suggest going to battleclinic and their loadouts section. Find a ship you want to fly and look at some of the top rated fittings. Read the descriptions of how you should fly it, and find stuff that sounds fun! Sometimes you can find some off the wall fittings and really start to experiment with EFT, finding new ways to fly every ship.

Mmm, I love the smell of pod goo in the morning.

Danny Centauri
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2011-10-14 19:19:10 UTC
OK this is a complete no brainer for me when it comes to learning how to fit ships a good place to start is EVE fitting tool, commonly referred to as EFT by the community, click here for more information about it.

The beauty of EFT is not only being able to test the improvement made by different modules but also being able to see how gang mates can help you through projected effects. Want to see if your battleship can survive being shot by three BS whilst being remote repped by 2 logistic ships go ahead EFT makes it easy enough to do.

Also as a warning do not become an EFT warrior, as a new player you are best of flying a rifter in PvP this makes it cheap to replace. Also use the other major resource EVE has to offer the other players in the community being in a strong corporation will help you as they can give the advice you need on fittings as many will have flown the same ship at some point.

EVE Manufacturing Guide - Simple guides to manufacturing in EVE for both beginners and more experienced players.

Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#6 - 2011-10-14 19:20:07 UTC
IMO, the hardest thing to keep in mind is that you can't be everything to everyone. A newbie mistake is thinking "I'm going to fit a little armor tank, a little shield tank, a few missiles, a few lasers... yeah, sounds good, I'm ready for anything!"

No way. Your survivability, particularly if you go into PVP (but this applies to PVE for higher level content too), is dependent on your knowledge of what you can do and what you can't. Everything in EVE is designed to have a counter. Sure, those 1400mm howitzer cannons hit hard ... but only if your target is large or has a low transverse.

Know what kind of combat you are going to go into and fit for it. Then stick to your strengths! If you like the up close and personal, fast and furious style -- never engage at range! You will just get your ass handed to you by someone who is fit for range, and you'll never be as good.

It is better to live and fight another day than to throw away ships at fights that were lost before they began.
Antilochus Theophanes
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2011-10-14 19:21:16 UTC
1) Use the same type of weapon, and the same type of ammunition for each weapon. You want to ensure all weapons have the same range to maximize damage dealt

- rainbow lasers, though pretty, are painful
- 2 railguns, 2 missile launchers, and 2 lasers are painful too

2) Use a weapon (or defensive module) that preferably is bonused by ship type. Exceptions apply, obviously

- If there is a bonus to say large laser optimal range and capacitor use, use large lasers to take advantage of bonus
- If you have an armor bonus per level for your ship, prefer to armor tank your ship

3) You will usually exchange damage for tank (or vice versa)

It is up to you and the situation you are planning for

- Fitting an extra heat sink (for lasers) in place of an armor hardener increases damage but reduces armor resistance
- Fitting a stasis webifier or sensor booster in a shield ship reduces your shield strength but increases your weapons' effectiveness (former) or lock time (latter)

3b) Use the proper weapon upgrade for your weapon.

- lasers use heat sinks
- missile launchers use ballistic control systems
- hybrids use magnetic field stabilizers
- projectile weapons use gyrostablizers

Please for the love of God don't put gyros on a laser ship (believe it or I have seen it), you are wasting a low slot

That's a good place to start.
Darth Skorpius
352 Industries
#8 - 2011-10-14 19:32:47 UTC
Khaemwese wrote:
EFT, no doubt has been my life saver since I started. for a while I actually spent more time playing with it, than actually playing Eve Big smile

personally i use evehq's hqf fitting tool. but yes, fitting tools can be very handy, just so long as you dont really on them completely, as they have been shown to not be 100% correct in the past. they should be used to get a basic idea of whether the fit you are planning will work and in the case of hqf you can then plan a skill queue to train the skills you might be missing (you still need to manually add them to your ingame queue)
Arkady Sadik
Electus Matari
#9 - 2011-10-14 19:37:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkady Sadik
Get EFT (or pyfa, or EVE HQ). Any of the offline fitting tools. That's more or less mandatory.

Find ideas for fits. Check killboards (of good entities), check failheap-challenge, check other 3rd party forums. Be careful about battleclinic, I found most fits there pretty crap. Never, ever simply copy a fit from a forum or killboard - always import it into EFT and figure out why it was made that way. Actually, make it a habit to go through kill mails and just analyze fittings to see why they're made that way. Also, make it a habit to just "fit a ship for fun" - pick a random ship and see what you can make out of it.

If you are in a sensible corp or alliance, use their standard fits and ask experienced members. Always ask *why* you are fitting something, not just what to fit.

There is a lot to be learned about ship fits. Don't fret if you take a while.

When fitting on your own, your goal should be to pick one or at most two things and make the ship good at those. Look at your ship's bonuses - those are usually a good indication what to focus the fit around. If it gets a damage bonus, put the guns in it gets a damage bonus for. Fit the rest of the fit around that. If it gets a repper bonus, put in reppers, fit the rest around that.

Do NOT try to fit a "jack of all trades". They are horrible fits. Fit for a specific purpose, and fly the ship so you end up in that purpose.

Then some basic rules of thumb:

- Do not mix ranges: Autocannons are close-range, artillery is long-range. Similar for blasters/rails, pulses/beams, etc. Fit either one or the other, never both. (Jack of all trades thing)
- Do not mix tanks: Either shield tank or armor tank, never fit both. (Jack of all trades thing again)
- Do not leave slots empty (only exception are high slots when not a weapon slot, it's called "utility slot")
- Always fill all the weapon slots you have in your ship. If it's a gunship, always fill all turret slots. Never leave one free.
- Armor tanks allow electronic warfare: Scram, disruptor, web, tracking disruptors, painters.
- Shield tanks allow for damage mods: Gyrostabs (MFS, Heat Sinks, BCS) and tracking enhancers - or speed mods (nanofibers, overdrive injector systems, etc.) to keep range.

To put this together, steps to fit a ship (for PvP):

- Put in a damage control
- Put in a microwarpdrive (afterburner for a dogfighting frigate)
- Put in a warp disruptor (warp scrambler on a dogfighting frigate)
- Fill the weapon slots with appropriate guns (usually close-range, e.g. AutoCannons)
- Fill the tank slots with a tank
-- Armor tank usually is (in addition to the DC) a plate and 1-2 energized adaptive nano membrane. Frigates fit 200mm plates, cruisers 800mm plates, some cruisers, BCs and above 1600mm plates
-- Shield tank usuall is a (single) shield extender and then maybe an invulnerability field. Frigates (and destroyers) fit medium shield extenders, cruisers and above go for large shield extenders.
- Fill the remaining slots to augment your ship's role. Armor tanks add 1-2 damage mods if at all possible, but mostly ewar. Shield tanks add damage and speed modules.

Oh, and finally, my favorite quotation regarding ship fits:

The novice doesn't know the rules, and creates monstrosities.
The practitioner follows the rules, and creates good works.
The master understands when to break the rules, and creates wonders.
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-10-14 19:58:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Nycterix
Eve HQ is what I use on windows, but there are packaged wine versions in this thread for mac users.
Kinroi Alari
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Ocularis Inferno
#11 - 2011-10-14 20:20:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinroi Alari
Favorite Grid Boost
I usually recommend that players learn to fly frigates well.
One of the most useful modules for power-starved frigates is this:
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I (+10MW, uses 15tf of CPU)
To run one takes Energy Management II and Enginering-III.

Tech You instead of Tech Two
The Drake battlecruiser uses passive shield tanking, and shield power relays are a key for PVE passive shield tanking (but oh, how they hurt your capacitor regeneration!). So a lot of players jump in and stuff their low slots with four tech II Shield Power Relay II. But if you're willing to pay a little more, I highly recommend these instead -- they're just as good, and eat less CPU: Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I

PVE mission runners love to pay lots of money to put Arbalest missile launchers on their ships. But if you're running out of CPU, consider the much cheaper 'Malkuth' missile launchers. They eat a lot less CPU.

PVPers and some PVEers love armor tanking (particularly Amarr pilots, as well as some Gallente and Minmatar). And while some styles of PVP armor tanking relies on massive armor plates for "buffer tanking," resistances are still important (and moreso in other styles). So many people turn to adaptive plating that provides "rainbow" damage resistance bonuses against all types of damage. But don't get fooled by those of us who jabber on about how you need Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane IIs; there are other inexpensive options.

Adaptive Nano Plating
(-8% rainbow damage resistance; uses 1 MW and -ZERO- CPU; requires Mechanic I & Hull Upgrades I)

Triple-Sheathed Adaptive Nano Plating
(-11.68% rainbow damage resistance; uses 1 MW and -ZERO- CPU; requires Mechanic I & Hull Upgrades I)

Energized Basic Adaptive Nano Plating
(-14% rainbow damage resistance; uses 1 MW and 24 CPU; requires Mechanic I & Hull Upgrades I)

Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I
(-15% rainbow damage resistance; uses 1 MW and 30 CPU; requires Mechanic I & Hull Upgrades III)

Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
(-20% rainbow damage resistance; uses 1 MW and 36 CPU; requires Mechanic I & Hull Upgrades V)

The following comes out of DED level 1 Serpentis complexes, and remain a fav of mine:
Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
(-19.5625% rainbow damage resistance; uses 1 MW and ZERO CPU; requires Mechanic I & Hull Upgrades I)
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#12 - 2011-10-14 20:43:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Louis deGuerre
How should I fit my ship ?

Fitting is the art of making a ship build that maximizes its effectiveness for its intended purpose. Mastery of it will make you successful at all you do in EVE.

Getting it to fit
The powergrid and CPU that you have available to fit modules is determined from the base amount your ship has available (in your fitting screen) modified primarily by your Engineering (5% extra powergrid/level) and Electronics Skill (5% extra CPU/level) levels.

There is only one type of module (lowslot) that can upgrade your CPU :
* Co-Processor (extra CPU)

For the powergrid there are three lowslot modules :
* Reactor Control Unit (extra powergrid)
* Micro Auxiliary Power Core (extra powergrid)
* Power Diagnostics System (increase cap/shield size/recharge rate and adds powergrid)

Modules :
* Named modules - Higher meta T1 modules generally have lower fitting requirements and equal or better performance than their T2 counterparts. So it's easier to fit best named T1 than T2.

Getting it work
Most setups need capacitor to actually work. The ideal for most mission running ships is cap stability, meaning that you can run all (or most) modules indefinitely without running our of capacitor. Note that capacitor recharge, like shields, is non-liniear and so will you will recharge more as your capacitor power remaining decreases with an optimal around 30 %.

Skills that affect capacitor use the most:
* Energy Management (increases cap capacity by 5% per level)
* Energy Systems Operation (decreases cap recharge time by 5% per level)
* Controlled Bursts (decreases activation cost of a weapon turret by 5% per level)
* Afterburner (increases ab cycle time +10% per level)
* High Speed manouvering (-5% cap needs of microwarp drive)
* Warp Drive Operation (decreases cap use when warping -10% per level)
Many other skills also decrease capacitor use of their respective modules/level.

Modules that affect capacitor size and recharge :
* Med slot Capacitor Battery (add a % to capacitor size)
* Med slot Capacitor Booster (inject a chunk of power into your capacitor)
* Med slot Capacitor Recharger (increase capacitor recharge rate)
* Low slot Capacitor Power Relay (Increases capacitor recharge rate at the expense of shield boosting)
* Low slot Capacitor Flux Coil (Increases capacitor recharge rate at the expense of capacitor size)
* Low slot Power Diagnostic System (increase capacitor/shield size/recharge rate and adds powergrid)
* Various rigs will mess with capacitor size and capacitor recharge rate (notably Capacitor Control Circuit rig)
* Named modules - Higher meta T1 modules generally have lower capacitor power needs when activated than the standard T1 ones.

Try not to mix guns. Design your ship to work at a certain range and ensure that you can maintain that range by being fast enough.

Here's a list of all the basic support skills that will help you fit and fly all ships better :

* Electronics Skill (5% extra CPU/level)
* Engineering (5% extra powergrid/level)
* Energy Management (increases cap capacity by 5% per level)
* Energy Systems Operation (decreases cap recharge time by 5% per level)
* Mechanic (5% bonus to structure hit points per skill level)
* Hull Upgrades (5% bonus to armor hit points per skill level)
* Afterburner (10% bonus to Afterburner duration per skill level)
* Navigation (5% bonus to sub-warp ship velocity per skill level)
* Acceleration Control (5% Bonus to Afterburner and MicroWarpdrive speed boost per skill level)
* Evasive Maneuvering (5% improved ship agility for all ships per skill level)
* Fuel Conservation (10% reduction in afterburner capacitor needs per skill level)
* Spaceship Command (2% improved ship agility for all ships per skill level)
* Weapon Upgrades (5% reduction per skill level in the CPU needs of weapon turrets, launchers and smartbombs)
* Advanced Weapon Upgrades (Reduces the powergrid needs of weapon turrets and launchers by 2% per skill level)

If you plan on shield tanking :
* Shield Management (5% bonus to shield capacity per skill level)
* Shield Operation (5% reduction in shield recharge time per skill level)

If you plan on armour tanking :
* Repair Systems (5% reduction in repair systems duration per skill level)

It is also highly recommended to train Drones as they can be used on most ships :
* Drones (Can operate 1 drone per skill level)
* Scout Drone Operation (Can use light and medium combat drones, drone control range increased by 5000 meters per skill level)

Check out the evelopedia article, especially the Common Rookie Mistakes section.
#13 - 2011-10-14 20:58:36 UTC
Apart from the marvellous tools mentioned above, I strongly suggest this:

1) Ask around in "Local" - the chat window for the space system you're in will often reap good advice; but never take it from just one player. It's easy to feel awe at the desk-pounding insistences of 2003 players, but Eve is the greatest sandbox game in the world. Nothing, but nothing, is a dead cert.

2) Join a Corporation. Eve is a game where you can of course choose to do things Your Way. But getting in with a group of guys & gals who can give you pointers, suggest things and maybe even help you along ISK-wise because they have a vested interest in you as a member of their Corp.. well, that's a very valuable thing. Within a Corporation, you can also test your ship fits in a live environment (you can shoot each other safely and without penalty). You can experiment to your heart's content, using your corp mates, until you find the ship fit that you're comfortable with.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

Rada Ionesco
Club a Seal
#14 - 2011-10-14 21:28:21 UTC
Arkady Sadik wrote:
Get EFT (or pyfa, or EVE HQ).

Do NOT try to fit a "jack of all trades". They are horrible fits. Fit for a specific purpose, and fly the ship so you end up in that purpose.

Oh, and finally, my favorite quotation regarding ship fits:

The novice doesn't know the rules, and creates monstrosities.
The practitioner follows the rules, and creates good works.
The master understands when to break the rules, and creates wonders.

Here (above quote) are a few bits of very, very valuable advice. Take it to heart and you will succeed.

I would also recommend reading blogs by experienced players (PVP or PVE), there is allot to be learned from people who have the time to flesh out advice and recount their own experiences. Priceless IMO.
Dragoon inc
#15 - 2011-10-14 21:32:32 UTC
The things tht i have used is EFT and EVE HQ those tools are invaluable to
any player. 2 For the fits if you are armor set dont put shield things onto your ship and if you are a shielder stick with shields. 3 ask local players can prvide you the most valuable info and possably fits always look for fit tht you know tht u can use. 4 rat loot works well even for low skill point players. Sell wht you do not need and keep wht u can use. If all else fails run like hell to the station. If u need anything else please eve mail me and i will send u all the gatherd know how for all resits and wht the rats shoot.
Church of Boom
#16 - 2011-10-14 22:20:07 UTC

Get it, use the API to pull in your current skills. If nothing else, get EFT. It will save you time, isk, and help enlighten you on why people give all the other fitting tips/advice.

Fly what you can afford to replace. You don't always need the most expensive module you can fit simply because it's "the best". Eve ship death is permanent. It's not like other MMOs where you get the best you can afford and then simply respawn. Eve doesn't need "the best" for everything, it needs what gets the job done.

Don't fly a jack of all trades ship. You don't need combat, mining, exploration, and remote repair all on one ship. You can have more than one ship. The station hangers are more then big enough. Build one for Ratting/Missions. A separate one for
hauling goods. Yet another for mining.

Stick to one weapon type for your ship, don't mix and match gun sizes, types and ammo. Most ships have a bonus to a certain weapon class/size or subtype. Sticking to that gives you the best bang for the fitting space.
For example:
- Use all Medium Artillery
- Do NOT use Half medium Artilary and half small autocannon.

Stick to one method of "tanking" or handeling and mitigating damage.
- Shield Buffer Tanking
- Shield Recharge Tanking
- Shield Booster Tanking
- Armor Buffer Tanking
- Armor Active (aka local Repair) Tanking
- Speed/Signature Tanking
- Hull Buffer Tanking (AKA Hero Tanking)

Don't underestimate the usefulness of drones...
Alpha Quadrant Industries
#17 - 2011-10-14 22:50:53 UTC
The best place to start would be BattleClinics loadout library the largest library of eve fittings, integrated into both EVEMon and EVEHQ, you can get advice as well as filtering quickly what you want.
Mad Hops
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-10-15 02:56:12 UTC
MrCue wrote:
The best place to start would be BattleClinics loadout library the largest library of eve fittings, integrated into both EVEMon and EVEHQ, you can get advice as well as filtering quickly what you want.

Not to mention that there are helpful wiki pages including Acronym lists for those pilots confused by veteran terms, fitting diagrams that are much easier to understand than plain text, and a helpful group of veteran moderators that are willing to spend their personal time to respond to your questions via PM, however noobish you think they are.
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-10-15 02:58:37 UTC
autocannon minmatar ships, 'nuff said
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2011-10-15 03:22:10 UTC
What are the various ways that one can learn how to be successful at fitting their ship?

Four tools:
1) EFT
2) Battleclinic (a LOT of bad fits, but ideas from top rated fits are a good place to start),
3) Eve Test Server, Sisi. Try it there to see how it performs with no risk or cost to you.
4) Eve Central to see the prices: or the market and contract tools in-game; keep the module costs to under the value of the ship hull, in general. Typically, no more than 1/10 the cost of the hull.

CPU rules the fitting. PG is much easier to work around.
Avoid Co-processors, reactor control units, as they only benefit cpu/pg and no other performance aspect of the ship.
Use your character, not all 5 character, because getting all 5 takes much more time and gives a false sense of performance than what you can expect to see in game.
Remember alpha. Sure it can tank like a beast, but what if the reps cannot avoid allowing each volley to add structure damage to the target ship?
Remember range. If optimal is 1 km, then your dps is practically 0 until you get to optimal plus falloff. Remember tracking. 0 dps again if you can't hit it. Remember missiles don't care about tracking and have lovely "optimals."

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 

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