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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Improving EVE's PVE content

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Astor Daeoli
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1 - 2011-10-14 15:18:53 UTC
What do you guys think? Is'nt It past time to improve the general PVE content in this game. Why does'nt CCP bring wormhole/incursion AI to all NPC rats.

Tthis does not mean that NPC rats need to be as hard as sansha or sleepers. CCP does not need to buff NPCs dps or HP, but CCP could buff NPCs a LOT in terms of thier AI i.e. all NPC frigs could scram and web, NPC crusiers could use AI to remote rep, focus fire etc.

CCP does not have to introduce new loot for these changes but can increase unit bounties by a % say 100% increase in bounties to justify the harder experiance that would require at least two pleople working together or dual boxing to complete missions.

This would make the game harder for noobs, but not that much harder. Noobs would benefit more from running level 1, 2 and 3 missions with a friend and that's why it's important that the bounties should be at least doubled to reflect the number of people needed to run the improved missions, belts, exploration sites.

This change would easily improve eve old, basic, boring and outdated general mission, exploration and belt ratting pve content.

I think these changes are LONG overdue. Do you agree with me? I realy don't think these changes are hard to make.

Noobs will whine a bit but if CCP made these changes, then it would provide a small stick to increase players social interaction, which is EVE's BEST PART.

Improving general NPC rat's AI might even help to reduce the rampent amout of BOTing in EVE, and that would be a blessing to us all.
Citizen Smif
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-10-14 15:28:33 UTC
I think missions and PvE in general are hideously boring.. I think as well that the vast majority of the EVE "carebear" community has forgotten about the concept of 'fun.' It's all become about making ISK and if any rebalance on CCPs part would slightly alter the amount of income they have there would be uproar! I, personally, would love it if they made missions harder and more challenging.. even if i did sacrifice some income.
Baralosus
Caldari Provisions
#3 - 2011-10-14 15:28:35 UTC
Add Jove to NPC for PVE content. The resulting tears will be glorifying.
Satav
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-10-14 15:33:48 UTC
I believe that more pve content is needed yes but not necessarily your proposed rat change.

check out my thread .

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=54171#post54171
Astor Daeoli
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2011-10-14 15:46:48 UTC
Satav wrote:
I believe that more pve content is needed yes but not necessarily your proposed rat change.

check out my thread .

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=54171#post54171


Some good ideas Satav. I just want CCP to focus more on make EVE's FiS more fun ("flying in space" or you could say making it "Fun in Space" again). EVE is getting stale and I find the fun factor is falling.

I know that reducing isk makes players upset and fed up. I saw that in 0.0 when changes to anomolies by true sec resulted in a lot of active players moving to empire or quitting the game. That change did not affect BOTers that much as most of them are in dead end side systems chaining belt rats 24/7. That change did make large parts of 0.0 dead and funless. So any change in PVE should make the content harder and more fun and chalenging for "active" players only and alow them to earn more not less isk as a reward.
Inari Kobayashi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2011-10-14 15:59:15 UTC
While I agree that Security missions and other PvE content need some love as well - I did put forward an idea focussed on improving Distribution missions as a way to boost new player retention and give those of us grinding standings for trade alts a little more fun than can be had at the moment.

I would be interested in peoples thoughts.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=17095&find=unread

Thanks
Infinimo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-10-14 16:00:39 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Zymurgist
delete all rats IMO

Trolling removed. Zymurgist

Theta Squad best squad. Monocle crew represent~
Astor Daeoli
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2011-10-14 16:00:58 UTC
Astor Daeoli wrote:
Satav wrote:
I believe that more pve content is needed yes but not necessarily your proposed rat change.

check out my thread .

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=54171#post54171


Some good ideas Satav. I just want CCP to focus more on make EVE's FiS more fun ("flying in space" or you could say making it "Fun in Space" again). EVE is getting stale and I find the fun factor is falling.

I know that reducing isk makes players upset and fed up. I saw that in 0.0 when changes to anomolies by true sec resulted in a lot of active players moving to empire or quitting the game. That change did not affect BOTers that much as most of them are in dead end side systems chaining belt rats 24/7. That change did make large parts of 0.0 dead and funless. So any change in PVE should make the content harder and more fun and chalenging for "active" players only and alow them to earn more not less isk as a reward.



What I was also thinking about above is what if CCP changed empire PVE and made it posible for small fleet of manual flying empire pilots (say at least 2 in fleet) to be able to earn a lot more than a BOT ship.

It be great if you could have fun and earn more isk playing harder, more complex and more chalenging contentent in empire over say a 2 hour stretch than can be earnt by a typical 0.0 bot that runns 10 hours at a time.
CCP Zymurgist
C C P
C C P Alliance
#9 - 2011-10-14 16:03:08 UTC
Moved from General Discussion.

Zymurgist Community Representative CCP NA, EVE Online Contact Us at http://support.eveonline.com/pages/petitions/createpetition.aspx
Ardamalis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-10-14 16:09:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Ardamalis
Personally I think missions should be subdivided more to generate additional content.

Missions could be divided into classes A,B,C,D,F with an an associated diffculty 1,2,3,4,5.

The code works as follows:

A -> designed for frigates
B -> designed for cruisers
C -> designed for battlecruisers
D -> designed for battleships
F -> designed for fully faction fitted ships (available only in lowsec)

1 -> easy solo mission for new players (solo)
2 -> average difficulty (solo)
3 -> Hard Difficulty (solo)
4 -> Small Group Needed (2 - 3 players)
5 -> Small Fleet Needed (4 - 7 players) (available only in lowsec)

As of now, eve's mission variety is a bit bland. For most level 4s you need a tanked battleship. This double ranked system will give more flavor allowing you to do missions in alternative ships. It also gives more options for new players if they want to mission in a bigger ship. As it stands, grinding lvl 1s to build up faction standing can be a bit monotonous.

Basically a "D-3" Mission would be equivalent to a current lvl 4.
Astor Daeoli
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2011-10-14 16:39:26 UTC
Ardamalis wrote:
Personally I think missions should be subdivided more to generate additional content.

Missions could be divided into classes A,B,C,D,F with an an associated diffculty 1,2,3,4,5.

The code works as follows:

A -> designed for frigates
B -> designed for cruisers
C -> designed for battlecruisers
D -> designed for battleships
F -> designed for fully faction fitted ships (available only in lowsec)

1 -> easy solo mission for new players (solo)
2 -> average difficulty (solo)
3 -> Hard Difficulty (solo)
4 -> Small Group Needed (2 - 3 players)
5 -> Small Fleet Needed (4 - 7 players) (available only in lowsec)

As of now, eve's mission variety is a bit bland. For most level 4s you need a tanked battleship. This double ranked system will give more flavor allowing you to do missions in alternative ships. It also gives new players more options for new players if they want to mission in a bigger ship. As it stands, grinding lvl 1s to build up faction standing can be a bit monotonous.

Basically a "D-3" Mission would be equivalent to a current lvl 4.


I like the sound of that. Now if only the dificulty levels 4 and up could earn a lot more isk over a 2 hour stretch than can be earnt by a typical 0.0, dead end system bot that runns 10 to 12 hours at a time.
Zircon Dasher
#12 - 2011-10-14 17:20:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Zircon Dasher
Astor Daeoli wrote:
Tthis does not mean that NPC rats need to be as hard as sansha or sleepers. CCP does not need to buff NPCs dps or HP, but CCP could buff NPCs a LOT in terms of thier AI i.e. all NPC frigs could scram and web, NPC crusiers could use AI to remote rep, focus fire etc.

CCP does not have to introduce new loot for these changes but can increase unit bounties by a % say 100% increase in bounties to justify the harder experiance that would require at least two pleople working together or dual boxing to complete missions.


1) "focus fire" is already in place for a solo mission runner
2) increasing scram/web amount in missions will only change fitting paradigms at best.
3)remote repping only matters if that repping is greater than the amount of DPS a mission ship is capable of.

If you take applied rat DPS (not just paper DPS) off the table then the only way to force people into dual boxing/ running with friends is to make rat RR more than 1k DPS.


Not saying missions are not boring. Just saying that it doesnt look like you engaged your reasoning capacity before posting.

Constructive edit:

Making triggers and rats random, in addition to increasing applied damage, "tank", speed, and scram quantity is the best way of making missions harder (and not easily done in cruiser and BC hulls).

Such changes do assume that "harder is better", however, which is not necessarily accurate.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Astor Daeoli
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#13 - 2011-10-14 17:32:31 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Astor Daeoli wrote:
Tthis does not mean that NPC rats need to be as hard as sansha or sleepers. CCP does not need to buff NPCs dps or HP, but CCP could buff NPCs a LOT in terms of thier AI i.e. all NPC frigs could scram and web, NPC crusiers could use AI to remote rep, focus fire etc.

CCP does not have to introduce new loot for these changes but can increase unit bounties by a % say 100% increase in bounties to justify the harder experiance that would require at least two pleople working together or dual boxing to complete missions.


1) "focus fire" is already in place for a solo mission runner
2) increasing scram/web amount in missions will only change fitting paradigms at best.
3)remote repping only matters if that repping is greater than the amount of DPS a mission ship is capable of.

If you take applied rat DPS (not just paper DPS) off the table then the only way to force people into dual boxing/ running with friends is to make rat RR more than 1k DPS.


Not saying missions are not boring. Just saying that it doesnt look like you engaged your reasoning capacity before posting.



You are correct about point 1 for solo misioning. I am grasping at straws to try to think of ways to make EVE’s pve content fun to play while also making it naturally un-bot-able. I would appreciate any ideas that would allow this.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#14 - 2011-10-14 17:33:31 UTC
Citizen Smif wrote:
I think missions and PvE in general are hideously boring...


Yes you think.

But actually you don't.

Think about it.
Zircon Dasher
#15 - 2011-10-14 17:53:09 UTC
Astor Daeoli wrote:
You are correct about point 1 for solo misioning. I am grasping at straws to try to think of ways to make EVE’s pve content fun to play while also making it naturally un-bot-able. I would appreciate any ideas that would allow this.


made quick edit.

Making things un-bot-able is something of a pipe dream imo. Best you can do is require the sophistication necessary to be much higher than the average bot found via google. That means variablity in content and task alike.Some people will find such changes "fun" because they require more active participation in PVE.

BUT those who consider player asset destruction and "tears" to be the only fun things to do will get no satisfaction from making missions harder. And in the most extreme cases merely irritate them because they have to exert more effort in non-fun activities. So think hard about whose fun you want to boost. (imo you cant have a total win with any changes) vOv

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Astor Daeoli
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2011-10-14 18:08:37 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Astor Daeoli wrote:
You are correct about point 1 for solo misioning. I am grasping at straws to try to think of ways to make EVE’s pve content fun to play while also making it naturally un-bot-able. I would appreciate any ideas that would allow this.


made quick edit.

Making things un-bot-able is something of a pipe dream imo. Best you can do is require the sophistication necessary to be much higher than the average bot found via google. That means variablity in content and task alike.Some people will find such changes "fun" because they require more active participation in PVE.

BUT those who consider player asset destruction and "tears" to be the only fun things to do will get no satisfaction from making missions harder. And in the most extreme cases merely irritate them because they have to exert more effort in non-fun activities. So think hard about whose fun you want to boost. (imo you cant have a total win with any changes) vOv


I would be happy with CCP making changes that "require the [PVE] sophistication necessary to be much higher than the average bot found via google"

I'm a pvp alt and my main's subscription has elapsed. For some reason I seem to be slow in renewing it this time.

I'm not into IP spoofing and setting up BOTs so I rely on grinding though EVE's very boring PVE content to pay for my PVP in 0.0.

I'm also a kind natured person in RL so I have not spent much time trying to make isk by scamming and steeling. I do occasionally steel exploration sites and I do like ganking WH PVE'ers. I would even like to participate in the Goons jihad against ice miners, but my corp has a ban on that kind of thing and I respect the corps rules so I don't get to participate in the Jihad or other profitable empire sucide squads Sad.
Infinimo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2011-10-14 18:45:20 UTC
Infinimo wrote:
delete all rats IMO

Trolling removed. Zymurgist

sequences shortened
trolling removed

Theta Squad best squad. Monocle crew represent~
Pharago
Nughat Corp
#18 - 2011-10-14 19:05:39 UTC
What I'd like to see it's the randomization of items inside missions, position and composition of groups, always inside some limits to prevent things like a L4 mission being composed of only frigates.

Also I like the idea behind 'Dread Pirate Scarlet' where all the pockets have NPCs from different pirate factions, 1st angels, 2nd serps and so on.

Point is to make changes to how the missions are defined so they always seem different and unique.

I'm sick of rescuing the damsel from the same 'garden' and killing zor.

I guess the parameters to define should include at least a minimun range between groups, so your WIP dosn't become overcrowded and you get instapop right after jumping in.
Shin Dari
Covert Brigade
#19 - 2011-10-15 20:51:57 UTC
I would like to suggest two improvements:


A. Mix randomized missions with scripted missions.


B. I would like a tab in settings in which a player can set the factions he/she doesn't want to mission against. So that agents won't offer such missions. [In Character: Why can't the agent get it through his thick skull that I don't want to mission against that faction?!]

This will be very convenient, however it should have several severe consequences.
1. The more factions you won't mission against, the less missions you are offered between DTs. So no grinding possible.
2. For each faction you won't mission against you must do more missions before you are offered a storyline mission.
3. You get less LP per mission.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#20 - 2011-10-17 08:58:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
Tanya Powers wrote:
Citizen Smif wrote:
I think missions and PvE in general are hideously boring...


Yes you think.

But actually you don't.

Think about it.


But they are: I mean, how many damned times are you gonna rescue the same damned Damsel, after urp-sploding the same damned NPCs, in exactly the same damned order for more or less the same damned bounties and pay-outs--AGAIN--before it all starts getting a bit gratingly tedious?

Come on, CCP, at least give us dynamic storylines for the existing missions, referenced to things like level, location, pilot standings, etc, if nothing else...!

(LolRP, because this is my RP char: "Someone should finally get it through that stupid floozie's head to watch whom she accepts drinks from...")

I mean, the last time I had any real excitement in a mission was in that self-same Damsel in Distress level 4, but it wasn't because I owned the mission:

It was because I'd ninja salvaged it, and in the process, totally forgot about the area-effect damage from the explosion of the structure that drops the completion item as the missioneer was in the process of blowing it up, and got too close...

Um. Derp.

The blast wave, naturally, insta-popped my salva-Vigil Oops, and the excitement came from hearing the "OHFUCKIMDEAD" alarm that it makes when you get alpha'ed, and then spamming "warp-to" on a celestial (hey, I was red to the 'bear, wasn't going to chance him not letting carebear-rage overwhelm common sense in hisec re--my pod)...

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.