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Eve's Death Knell

First post
Author
James Vayne
Section 9 SFU
#81 - 2012-09-03 09:06:24 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
My final thoughts on this matter.

Nerfing hi-sec will not make null sec more attractive, it will simply make hi-sec less profitable.

It is false logic to assume that nerfing hi-sec will, in some weird way, yet to be explained, mean more folk will move to null.

Most folk play Eve in an overall context, it is not by any means as simple as nerfing hi-sec income equals more folk in null.


The "logic" is:

"Null sec is smelly poo. If we make hi sec like worse poo, then people will love to come to smelly poo".

Even an idiot can see how it's going to work.



I actually think must of the anti-nullsec propaganda is fear. People are, sadly, scared of losing their ship/pod/implants and so denigrate nullsec as a result that all of those things are quite possible when living in nullsec or lowsec or even on brief visits.

I think people just need to grow up and realise a pixel spaceship is easily replaced in the course of time.
James Vayne
Section 9 SFU
#82 - 2012-09-03 09:21:57 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

False.

In the past, 2-3 nerfs ago, hi sec L4 missions yielded > 100M per hour.
In the past L5 missions were in hi sec for even higher income per hour.
In the (recent-ish) past incursions delivered > 100M per hour.

"Past" is the keyword. Nerfs happened.

Only thing that became somewhat more profitable was hi sec mining, and this because null seccers organized and sponsored mass destruction of mining ships and this led to higher income to the few who survived.
Even then, that's not an ISK faucet, since minerals are worth zero ISK per se, only demand and supply decides a value.



You misunderstand what I mean by 'reward'. High sec as a whole is a rewarding experience. Not just money to be made from mining or missions, but everything to the cost of installing jobs, the cost of refining, tax rates and so on and so forth. 100M per hour is relatively high value when the expenditure of operating in high sec is relatively low. Stations, for example, offer much more incentive and rewarding gains for use than those in null or low sec. I believe this question was recently posed, in fact, and that CCP returned that they had discussed the possibility that high sec was just 'too good' to be in overall than the other sectors.

So, as I said, there is relatively high reward in High Sec for next to no risk at all, which is not the way Eve Online should operate.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2012-09-03 09:27:12 UTC
I'm fine with highsec levels of income staying as they are as long as nullsec levels are buffed. Otherwise, highsec should be nerfed.

The risk vs. reward is out of whack otherwise.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

nat longshot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2012-09-03 09:38:48 UTC  |  Edited by: nat longshot
James 315 wrote:
I don't think there's so much an issue of hate between the two groups as a problem with game imbalance that most of us recognize: There's too much reward for too little risk in highsec, and "carebear"-type players seem very eager to maintain or worsen the imbalance, to everyone's detriment. Cool


there is risk in high sec. war dec's and the moron trying to loot and steal what they can and geting to you fire on then. Then there are the gankers. I have seen freighters, high end Pve bs's ganked and of course mining ships ganked so there are risks in high sec most are player based btw. Other then say Sansha's witch is the only thing in high sec you can bank over 100 mil a hour. most mission runner make 30-60mil a hour and mining even less. so were the higher isk income? oh ya low sec and 0.0 missions like the level 5's and high end plexs.

ok what do you call imbalance? all low sec claim there a imbalance vs high sec with it come to risk. Low sec is for those that wish for higher risk and higher pay for said risk and for people looking for pvp at all times.

If Ccp mess's with high sec given its has the highest player count they will kill eve point blank. Low secer's cry and wine that they need more players well you live in low sec for your own reason why force others to play your game its a sandbox your in your part others in there.

You want to mess with the other side of the sandbox deal with rule's on that side dont go crying high sec is unfair to low sec or 0.0. Hell in 0.0 you get payed way more for less risk i know been there done that.

you what low sec with more people give us the reason to go there other then hay look its a low sec blob it not a commom site to see one ship attackng one ship low is well known for it own blobs like 0.0 and gate camping.

Low sec is the redhead stepchild no on wants why is that? Oh what the blobs,station camping and gate camping thats why. Make blobing, station and gate camping harder and you get more targets "cough" people in low sec. Low secer's caused there own problem they push people out of low sec so why is it upto ccp to fix what the player base broke from there so called farming kills at gate's and station's? you want people down there then probe out mission and plex runners after you let them in dont kill them the 2nd they jump in like most of you sry sh*t's do.

 [13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!!

TharOkha
0asis Group
#85 - 2012-09-03 09:45:50 UTC
Abel Merkabah wrote:
there are no hardcore players in highsec


Then why is hisec full of goons last few months? Smile
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2012-09-03 09:53:24 UTC
nat longshot wrote:
Hell 0.0 you get payed way more for less risk i know been there done that.

Uh, no.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

nat longshot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2012-09-03 09:56:41 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
nat longshot wrote:
Hell 0.0 you get payed way more for less risk i know been there done that.

Uh, no.


ah ya ive flown in 0.0 and plexed in 0.0 and low sec i had 5 times less trouble in 0.0 then low sec and made more isk.

 [13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!!

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2012-09-03 09:57:43 UTC
nat longshot wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
nat longshot wrote:
Hell 0.0 you get payed way more for less risk i know been there done that.

Uh, no.


ah ya ive flown in 0.0 and plexed in 0.0 and low sec i had 5 times less trouble in 0.0 then low sec and made more isk.

You were comparing it to highsec, not lowsec.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

nat longshot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2012-09-03 10:07:43 UTC  |  Edited by: nat longshot
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
nat longshot wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
nat longshot wrote:
Hell 0.0 you get payed way more for less risk i know been there done that.

Uh, no.


ah ya ive flown in 0.0 and plexed in 0.0 and low sec i had 5 times less trouble in 0.0 then low sec and made more isk.

You were comparing it to highsec, not lowsec.


the only reason i did that was so i can state what i have seen low sec is a pain in the arss thanks to those that still wine low sec dont have many people there and there the reason why.

o.o is less trouble to make isk then low sec for reason's i have posted and that is because the player base in low sec have made low sec the "redheaded stepchild".

only people they can blame is the low secer's make it that way its not ccp fault.

 [13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!!

Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#90 - 2012-09-03 10:24:22 UTC
Thats still irrelevant to your comparison to high sec.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)

Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-09-03 10:28:54 UTC
they should make dynamic sec status... so a 0.5 could potentially become a 0.4 and the other way around

How it should be done is up for discussion

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Josef Djugashvilis
#92 - 2012-09-03 10:32:29 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I'm fine with highsec levels of income staying as they are as long as nullsec levels are buffed. Otherwise, highsec should be nerfed.

The risk vs. reward is out of whack otherwise.


Going by my hourly income and that of other missions runners I know, 30mill seems to be an average figure, (yes, I know some folk say they earn - insert desired fantasy figure here - per hour) what is the average hourly income for null players, assumimg one is playing in corp/alliance space?

I expect null players to now cry povertySmile

This is not a signature.

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#93 - 2012-09-03 10:39:56 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
So no hate between high-sec care bears and Null bears?

or if they are shutting the servers down they could just save time and switch them off or just to be sadistic turn off the ability to PvP anywhere. EvE-O forums would get a super boost of whine.



Ho yes please let me bubble Jita undock and gates with my friends. I'd love to read all those high sec pubbies tears because they can't elite pvp any more under concord protection Twisted

brb

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2012-09-03 10:42:03 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I'm fine with highsec levels of income staying as they are as long as nullsec levels are buffed. Otherwise, highsec should be nerfed.

The risk vs. reward is out of whack otherwise.


Going by my hourly income and that of other missions runners I know, 30mill seems to be an average figure, (yes, I know some folk say they earn - insert desired fantasy figure here - per hour) what is the average hourly income for null players, assumimg one is playing in corp/alliance space?

I expect null players to now cry povertySmile

30-40 mill per hour is about average, yes. Ratting in my Tengu gives me ticks of around 12-15 million.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
#95 - 2012-09-03 10:45:38 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I'm fine with highsec levels of income staying as they are as long as nullsec levels are buffed. Otherwise, highsec should be nerfed.

The risk vs. reward is out of whack otherwise.


Going by my hourly income and that of other missions runners I know, 30mill seems to be an average figure, (yes, I know some folk say they earn - insert desired fantasy figure here - per hour) what is the average hourly income for null players, assumimg one is playing in corp/alliance space?

I expect null players to now cry povertySmile


Yea, I saw the figure go from 50 mill to 100 in a couple months, it's like they read a number and pad it by 20-30 inflating it each time to make a dramatic point,should be 200 mill per hour soon.

Now if you get just the right mission, say like, smash the supplier, thats 40 mill, takes a bit over 20 minutes, then around 10 to loot, go back get another mission...crap duo of death, resign..attack of the drones...crap, oh well 10 mill, almost an hour passed. Most missions however are not smash the supplier.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#96 - 2012-09-03 11:08:40 UTC
Jax Bederen wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I'm fine with highsec levels of income staying as they are as long as nullsec levels are buffed. Otherwise, highsec should be nerfed.

The risk vs. reward is out of whack otherwise.


Going by my hourly income and that of other missions runners I know, 30mill seems to be an average figure, (yes, I know some folk say they earn - insert desired fantasy figure here - per hour) what is the average hourly income for null players, assumimg one is playing in corp/alliance space?

I expect null players to now cry povertySmile


Yea, I saw the figure go from 50 mill to 100 in a couple months, it's like they read a number and pad it by 20-30 inflating it each time to make a dramatic point,should be 200 mill per hour soon.

Now if you get just the right mission, say like, smash the supplier, thats 40 mill, takes a bit over 20 minutes, then around 10 to loot, go back get another mission...crap duo of death, resign..attack of the drones...crap, oh well 10 mill, almost an hour passed. Most missions however are not smash the supplier.

So you're coming around to about 30 million per hour, which is very close to my stated nullsec levels of income. For incursion runners this surpasses that, again for relatively minimal amounts of risk.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2012-09-03 11:26:33 UTC
Abel Merkabah wrote:
There is a lot of hate between Highsec carebears and low/null sec players;......

Pure chaos and destruction until the servers die and Eve's universe suffers its heat death....

I just see all the hate in the forums ......



In the forums...yes...there's your problem right there.
Run along.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Rats
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2012-09-03 12:02:02 UTC
Abel Merkabah wrote:
There is a lot of hate between Highsec carebears and low/null sec players; highsec has the numbers low/null have the more hardcore players (highsec has a higher concentration of casuals not insinuating there are no hardcore players in highsec).

How awesome would it be, if when Eve's servers finally are going to be shut down, the Devs open up all space; all security is null all space SOV. Basically one final war between the former security systems to end it.

Pure chaos and destruction until the servers die and Eve's universe suffers its heat death.

I just see all the hate in the forums and think this would be a great way to settle the score so speak before the end. I personally hope Eve goes on for at least another 11 years; so not saying the end is coming or anything.

Edit: I'm just suggesting that near the end, CCP let's the system go, lets the attempt at balance fail, let's we the players see how far we can take it; with absolutely no interferrence. I think that would be a blast personally. Or as suggested, turn off PvP and watch the Economy go crazy. I think the Death Knell should be some grand experiment.



This was done once when they had to role back the servers due to a tech issue , It was awesome.

Please do this again, designate a weekend tell everyone one its pew pew weekend then roll back the servers on the Monday after the fun.

Tal


I Fought the Law, and the Law Won... Talon Silverhawk

Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#99 - 2012-09-03 12:08:06 UTC
This is just another "Eve is dying" troll thread, couched in the disguise of "what if".

What a dissapointment.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#100 - 2012-09-03 12:21:09 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I'm fine with highsec levels of income staying as they are as long as nullsec levels are buffed. Otherwise, highsec should be nerfed.

The risk vs. reward is out of whack otherwise.


Going by my hourly income and that of other missions runners I know, 30mill seems to be an average figure, (yes, I know some folk say they earn - insert desired fantasy figure here - per hour) what is the average hourly income for null players, assumimg one is playing in corp/alliance space?

I expect null players to now cry povertySmile

30-40 mill per hour is about average, yes. Ratting in my Tengu gives me ticks of around 12-15 million.


you're doing something awfully wrong if you're getting 12-15m ticks fyi

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar