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[High sec research pos] Size and defance?

Author
Tecno 51
White Hot Research
#1 - 2011-10-13 23:31:37 UTC
I need to make a decision on what size pos is going to be good for me. I recently started researching blueprint (invention, ME, PE,...). The reason I want a pos is because the npc-stationlabs are full most of the time (inventen & copying). I basicly need a small pos with 3 labs, but the problem lies in being able to be wardeced. Because its going to be a 1-man personal research corp its not going to be able to have corp members help protect the POS (gunners). Is it worth risking this? Unanchoring and anchoring is not going to work for me (besides risking pos theft), because I dont have enouf standing to faction to reanchor by my self.

So my question is. Should I get my self a medium or even a large pos (max 350mil on pos alone). I need to keep the fuel cost as low as possible (faction are mostly out of my cash range). So what do you guys recommend me to do? What defenses (that will only be onlined once wardeced) should I use?

I also understand that the Caldari pos have the most CPU, but that missile are bad (they ofline when the pos is reinforced?). So could you also give me a recommandation about what faction to get?

I hope one of you can help me find the solution.
Carthag Tsimpo
Property Industries
#2 - 2011-10-13 23:44:14 UTC
Tecno 51 wrote:
I need to make a decision on what size pos is going to be good for me. I recently started researching blueprint (invention, ME, PE,...). The reason I want a pos is because the npc-stationlabs are full most of the time (inventen & copying). I basicly need a small pos with 3 labs, but the problem lies in being able to be wardeced. Because its going to be a 1-man personal research corp its not going to be able to have corp members help protect the POS (gunners). Is it worth risking this? Unanchoring and anchoring is not going to work for me (besides risking pos theft), because I dont have enouf standing to faction to reanchor by my self.

So my question is. Should I get my self a medium or even a large pos (max 350mil on pos alone). I need to keep the fuel cost as low as possible (faction are mostly out of my cash range). So what do you guys recommend me to do? What defenses (that will only be onlined once wardeced) should I use?

I also understand that the Caldari pos have the most CPU, but that missile are bad (they ofline when the pos is reinforced?). So could you also give me a recommandation about what faction to get?

I hope one of you can help me find the solution.


I'm not too experienced with setting them up. But a small POS isn't that costly and I think the chance of becomming a target among all rest is small. You'll also have 24h to empty pos of anything valuable in it before the war dec kicks in. I'd just wing it unless I know I wont be able to log in every day to check the status.
Tecno 51
White Hot Research
#3 - 2011-10-14 00:01:00 UTC
Carthag Tsimpo wrote:
Tecno 51 wrote:
I need to make a decision on what size pos is going to be good for me. I recently started researching blueprint (invention, ME, PE,...). The reason I want a pos is because the npc-stationlabs are full most ofs the time (inventen & copying). I basicly need a small pos with 3 labs, but the problem lies in being able to be wardeced. Because its going to be a 1-man personal research corp its not going to be able to have corp members help protect the POS (gunners). Is it worth risking this? Unanchoring and anchoring is not going to work for me (besides risking pos theft), because I dont have enouf standing to faction to reanchor by my self.

So my question is. Should I get my self a medium or even a large pos (max 350mil on pos alone). I need to keep the fuel cost as low as possible (faction are mostly out of my cash range). So what do you guys recommend me to do? What defenses (that will only be onlined once wardeced) should I use?

I also understand that the Caldari pos have the most CPU, but that missile are bad (they ofline when the pos is reinforced?). So could you also give me a recommandation about what faction to get?

I hope one of you can help me find the solution.


I'm not too experienced with setting them up. But a small POS isn't that costly and I think the chance of becomming a target among all rest is small. You'll also have 24h to empty pos of anything valuable in it before the war dec kicks in. I'd just wing it unless I know I wont be able to log in every day to check the status.


The only valuable stuff thats going to be sitting in the pos are the mods and materials. The BPO's and BPC's can stay in a corp hanger in same station (thats what I atleast read).

And like I said. Once I unanchor I cant anchor the pos back somewhere else as I dont have the req standings (bought corp from someone else that had high standings - corp stand stays for 7 days ). That and plus I risk losing the pos (if its small then its not that bad) in the unanchor period (but can minimize that by cloacking).

A small pos wont have any defence at all or maybe 2-3ish guns? So still want some more feedback from you guys :).
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-10-14 00:08:55 UTC
CONCORD kills anyone who attacks your POS when you are not at war, so you don't have to worry about that.

If someone declares war on you, they can attack your POS freely 24 hours after they declare it. This means that if you log in every day and have an hour or so, you can always tear down the POS when you get decced.

That being said, POS bashing isn't exactly the most exciting activity in EVE. Fit a dickstar and you will only have to worry about getting your POS attacked if you really pissed someone off bad.

Long story short, don't **** anyone off, stay low and pick a moon in some dead-end system with lots of available moons. This is your best defense for a high-sec POS.
Tecno 51
White Hot Research
#5 - 2011-10-14 00:20:26 UTC
Taedrin wrote:
CONCORD kills anyone who attacks your POS when you are not at war, so you don't have to worry about that.

If someone declares war on you, they can attack your POS freely 24 hours after they declare it. This means that if you log in every day and have an hour or so, you can always tear down the POS when you get decced.

That being said, POS bashing isn't exactly the most exciting activity in EVE. Fit a dickstar and you will only have to worry about getting your POS attacked if you really pissed someone off bad.

Long story short, don't **** anyone off, stay low and pick a moon in some dead-end system with lots of available moons. This is your best defense for a high-sec POS.


You are right about what you said, but as anyone knows, peopl like grieving and enjoy tears. What I am afraid for is that someone will see my pos and find out that theres no defence + being a 1-man corp and decide to wardec and kill pos with bs while being afk. I can however check daily for wardec (evegate for wardec mais). Hmm think I will go for small.

I had to lookup dickstar ( wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Dickstar ), but its basicly hardners and ewar only. got a nice setup for that?

Eladaris
Indefinite.
#6 - 2011-10-14 01:08:23 UTC
Tecno 51 wrote:
You are right about what you said, but as anyone knows, peopl like grieving and enjoy tears. What I am afraid for is that someone will see my pos and find out that theres no defence + being a 1-man corp and decide to wardec and kill pos with bs while being afk. I can however check daily for wardec (evegate for wardec mais). Hmm think I will go for small.


Anchor a small, if you get war dec'ed you can pull down the labs (losing the jobs) and only lose the tower / fuel / stront.

Also fairly certain Eve-gate doesn't do notifications.
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-10-14 01:24:03 UTC
Tecno 51 wrote:
Taedrin wrote:
CONCORD kills anyone who attacks your POS when you are not at war, so you don't have to worry about that.

If someone declares war on you, they can attack your POS freely 24 hours after they declare it. This means that if you log in every day and have an hour or so, you can always tear down the POS when you get decced.

That being said, POS bashing isn't exactly the most exciting activity in EVE. Fit a dickstar and you will only have to worry about getting your POS attacked if you really pissed someone off bad.

Long story short, don't **** anyone off, stay low and pick a moon in some dead-end system with lots of available moons. This is your best defense for a high-sec POS.


You are right about what you said, but as anyone knows, peopl like grieving and enjoy tears. What I am afraid for is that someone will see my pos and find out that theres no defence + being a 1-man corp and decide to wardec and kill pos with bs while being afk. I can however check daily for wardec (evegate for wardec mais). Hmm think I will go for small.

I had to lookup dickstar ( wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Dickstar ), but its basicly hardners and ewar only. got a nice setup for that?



Just fit a bunch of hardeners and ewar batteries after you fit whatever mobile labs you are going to use. If you use up your CPU, then finish off the powergrid by fitting some turrets.

Remember that each additional shield hardener is only half as effective as the previous one. Don't forget to spread your resists out and get a variety of jammers. However, get a few extra White Noise jammers (effective vs. Amarr) to protect against would-be AFK POS bashers.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#8 - 2011-10-14 02:04:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Scrapyard Bob
Eladaris wrote:
Tecno 51 wrote:
You are right about what you said, but as anyone knows, peopl like grieving and enjoy tears. What I am afraid for is that someone will see my pos and find out that theres no defence + being a 1-man corp and decide to wardec and kill pos with bs while being afk. I can however check daily for wardec (evegate for wardec mais). Hmm think I will go for small.


Anchor a small, if you get war dec'ed you can pull down the labs (losing the jobs) and only lose the tower / fuel / stront.

Also fairly certain Eve-gate doesn't do notifications.


+1 (and no, EVE Gate does not do notifications - use EVEMon)

Small towers in hi-sec, your plan should be to use the 24h wardec warning to cancel jobs, empty the labs, unanchor them, unanchor the tower and haul everything to a station.

Invention can be done in a station in most regions and is easier because you don't have to haul stuff out to the tower or move the decryptors around from lab to lab (or buy extras). The downside is competition for the slots and the slower speed in station slots over POS lab slots. But the main bottleneck is (usually) copy slots which is where the POS labs come into play.

Have a corp rule that nobody should run jobs that last more then a week at a time to minimize the loss for when you have to cancel jobs.

For a medium tower where you want to go the ECM route, you should anchor at least 36 ECM (and 48 would not be too many). Wardec comes in, you pull the labs down, put all the ECM online. Anchor 9 hardeners (3/3/2/1 setup) and put those online if the ECM batteries start dying. The goal of a setup like that is to show that you know enough to make the attacker's life difficult, which means opportunistic attackers will look elsewhere. But it will not prevent a dedicated attacker from killing the tower.

Large tower, think 60-90 ECM, plus 12-24 guns, tackle, dams, webs, plus 13 hardeners. No you can't put everything online at the same time, but it gives you options during the warm-up period based on how many POS gunners you'll have and what the enemy force is likely to bring. Plus you'll have spares that you can put online to delay the issue. You're still going to probably have to evacuate labs if you can't form a fleet to drive off the attackers.
DigDoug
RoKaSa Industries Ltd.
I Showed You My Probes... Please Respond...
#9 - 2011-10-14 05:03:55 UTC
Fortune favors the bold. You're operating in high sec so you'll have to hope fortune reluctlantly acknowledges the bold-ish. Put up a Large POS. If you're going to do something, do it all the way. If you half ass it you will just get a half ass result. Large POS, hardeners, EWAR, and put some guns on it.

You may be a one man corp but there is nothing stating how many alts one man can run at a time. I recommend you train those alts to anchoring V and get station defense management. If someone comes looking for trouble, then give them some trouble. If you actively man your POS guns you're going to cause some headaches for would be griefers.

Use Medium and Small Turrets. Large fire XL ammo and are for shotting at capital ships. There aren't any capital ships in high sec so don't waste the resources on them.

Here's how you load out your POS. Put up as many labs as you can max out. Go ahead and drop an assembly array. What kind? I don't know, I'm not your business manager, do the maths and figure out what you can make money building. I'd recommend going for isk/hr not isk/item. After you have a plan on how the POS is going to *** MAKE *** you money, not cost you money, you have a legit reason to place one. Now that you have the CPU and Power you need allocated for production, onward to defense. Hardeners are fun. I use them. Guns are even more fun. I use those as well. Anchor and set up your guns to defend from all vectors of approach on your station. Don't leave a medium gun on its own/isolated. A smaller ship will just speed tank it and drop it, creating an even larger hole in your defense grid. Online what guns you can, stock them with ammo and leave the rest offline. If you get war dec'd simply crop short what research jobs are short timers and turn off the labs you aren't using. If you're paranoid, unanchor and put them up in a station. Now with your extra grid and CPU bring on more defenses. 24 hours is ample time to do this.

For the most part if you don't go looking for trouble nobody is going to bother with taking down a heavily fortified and well armed Large POS... it's just not something you do for fun unless you're a masochist.

Strontium Calthrates... use them just incase you do get reinforced but don't use the full amount. By using a different amount, known to you, you dictate when the POS comes out of reinforced, they will have to watch you like a hawk or assume you used the max amount and then they can't do the maths and figure out when it's vulnerable again.

Short version:
If you're going to do something, do it big.
Chichkata
Legion Enterprises Inc
#10 - 2011-10-14 09:07:29 UTC
I'd say try your luck. Put up your small POS with the 3 labs, but anchor ~30 ECMs and 2-3 med arties.
If you get wardecced simply online one arty and as many ECMs as you can. See what happens.

You would have to have pissed off somebody real bad for them to want to bash your POS with 20+ ECMs.
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-10-14 15:36:26 UTC
Chichkata wrote:
I'd say try your luck. Put up your small POS with the 3 labs, but anchor ~30 ECMs and 2-3 med arties.
If you get wardecced simply online one arty and as many ECMs as you can. See what happens.

You would have to have pissed off somebody real bad for them to want to bash your POS with 20+ ECMs.


Can a small POS even support that many ECM?
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#12 - 2011-10-14 18:06:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Scrapyard Bob
Re-calc:

ECM module is 50tf and 25MW.

Amarr small is 1375tf and 1250MW = 27 ECM
Minmatar small is 1500tf and 1093MW = 30 ECM
Gallente small is 1688tf and 937.5MW = 33 ECM
Caldari small is 1875tf and 687.5MW = 27 ECM

Anchoring 10% spares is not a bad idea as it means the attacker has to chew through a handful more batteries before they can get at the chewy goodness that is the POS shield.
Chichkata
Legion Enterprises Inc
#13 - 2011-10-14 21:07:51 UTC
Yes, on a caldari small you can even online one medium arty with 19 ECMs but I'm not sure if that's more annoying than 27 ECMs alone... Lol

Still, that's against casual high sec POS bashers. If you're wardecced by a large corp/alliance you can always try diplomacy first. If they want to blast your POS though, if it's a small one, I wouldn't remove it. Sure, the labs and everything important I would save, but I'd leave the tower with defences to make it more tedious and costly (if possible) for them to raize. And also for some POS guns fun.
RC Denton
Shazaam Industries
#14 - 2011-10-14 22:59:45 UTC  |  Edited by: RC Denton
DigDoug wrote:
Fortune favors the bold. You're operating in high sec so you'll have to hope fortune reluctlantly acknowledges the bold-ish. Put up a Large POS. If you're going to do something, do it all the way. If you half ass it you will just get a half ass result. Large POS, hardeners, EWAR, and put some guns on it.

You may be a one man corp but there is nothing stating how many alts one man can run at a time. I recommend you train those alts to anchoring V and get station defense management. If someone comes looking for trouble, then give them some trouble. If you actively man your POS guns you're going to cause some headaches for would be griefers.

Use Medium and Small Turrets. Large fire XL ammo and are for shotting at capital ships. There aren't any capital ships in high sec so don't waste the resources on them.

Here's how you load out your POS. Put up as many labs as you can max out. Go ahead and drop an assembly array. What kind? I don't know, I'm not your business manager, do the maths and figure out what you can make money building. I'd recommend going for isk/hr not isk/item. After you have a plan on how the POS is going to *** MAKE *** you money, not cost you money, you have a legit reason to place one. Now that you have the CPU and Power you need allocated for production, onward to defense. Hardeners are fun. I use them. Guns are even more fun. I use those as well. Anchor and set up your guns to defend from all vectors of approach on your station. Don't leave a medium gun on its own/isolated. A smaller ship will just speed tank it and drop it, creating an even larger hole in your defense grid. Online what guns you can, stock them with ammo and leave the rest offline. If you get war dec'd simply crop short what research jobs are short timers and turn off the labs you aren't using. If you're paranoid, unanchor and put them up in a station. Now with your extra grid and CPU bring on more defenses. 24 hours is ample time to do this.

For the most part if you don't go looking for trouble nobody is going to bother with taking down a heavily fortified and well armed Large POS... it's just not something you do for fun unless you're a masochist.

Strontium Calthrates... use them just incase you do get reinforced but don't use the full amount. By using a different amount, known to you, you dictate when the POS comes out of reinforced, they will have to watch you like a hawk or assume you used the max amount and then they can't do the maths and figure out when it's vulnerable again.

Short version:
If you're going to do something, do it big.


Meh. Depends on how large your industrial operation is. If you're a one man corp you're going to be constrained on the number of lines you can simultaneously run. A small POS will pretty much do the job for you. If you're dilligent and don't put up a lot of crap then if you get dec'd you can take it all down pretty quickly, and redeploy it once they've gotten bored and moved on. You don't even need a single defensive module since they can't attack the POS in high sec without getting concordokened.

Also if your tower gets reinforced it's got this large very visible to everyone timer that says how long it will be until it comes out of reinforced. Generally putting enough stront in place to offset the time by 12 hrs is good as the time they whack your tower is their active time, and making them finish the job 12 hrs offset from that will make them have to at least wake up early to do it.

One last point being that the more you can reduce the cost of doing business the higher your profits will be. So if you plan to anchor a large tower, then you have to factor the cost of a large towers worth of fuel into your profit calculations. If you can get away with a small your fuel costs will be 1/4 that of the large. And your startup expenses will be alot lower.