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The Case for Removing Learning Implants

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Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#301 - 2012-09-01 10:34:05 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
What large Null sec alliance does not have a ship replacement program?


Almost every alliance reimburses or replaces ships in one way or another, but most don't have comprehensive programs like Goonswarm's.

But what's wrong with ship replacement programs?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Frying Doom
#302 - 2012-09-01 10:39:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Andski wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
What large Null sec alliance does not have a ship replacement program?


Almost every alliance reimburses or replaces ships in one way or another, but most don't have comprehensive programs like Goonswarm's.

But what's wrong with ship replacement programs?

Actually nothing. I came up in relation to personal risk of the player and as they are not funding the ship them selves they have no risk attached to it.

Edit: The bigger problem is that funding in alliances and corps is set the wrong way, it top down funding, not bottom up.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#303 - 2012-09-01 10:47:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Aruken Marr
Frying Doom wrote:

What large Null sec alliance does not have a ship replacement program?


I do believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) SMA do not provide peacetime reimbursement which means any ship losses outside of large strategic ops will not be replaced. So that's stuff like small gangs and home defense and the like. Some smaller alliances can't even afford the strat op reimbursements. When you talk about things you know little about, assumptions can make you look stupid Mr Doom. Best avoid them in future.

Andski wrote:

But what's wrong with ship replacement programs?


Nothing really. It's an alliances choice what they do with alliance level resources. It's sort of how people were using the argument that suicide ganking hulks was imbalanced because one alliance outside of any mechanics decided to pay them for the kills.


Frying Doom wrote:
Aruken Marr wrote:

Also the word is averse you illiterate imbecile.

So thank you Andski and apparently you, Aruken Marr are actually the illiterate imbecile as you apparently cannot read the word Large.Lol

But thank you for the spelling lesson.


Is SMA not large? Please teach me what exactly constitutes as large?
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#304 - 2012-09-01 10:50:39 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Actually nothing. I came up in relation to personal risk of the player and as they are not funding the ship them selves they have no risk attached to it.

Edit: The bigger problem is that funding in alliances and corps is set the wrong way, it top down funding, not bottom up.


Um, the risk is shifted to the organizational level rather than the individual level. There's nothing wrong with that.

Organizational income should be bottom-up but there is literally no way to tax anything other than bounties. Taxing mining depends on making refining in home space worthwhile compared to hauling compressed ore out to empire and refining for free with a standings alt (broken as hell IMO) but it'd be real nice to see sales taxes from nullsec stations go to the owner of the station, rather than into a black hole. Of course that'd remove a sizable ISK sink but vOv

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Frying Doom
#305 - 2012-09-01 10:53:24 UTC
Aruken Marr wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Aruken Marr wrote:

Also the word is averse you illiterate imbecile.

So thank you Andski and apparently you, Aruken Marr are actually the illiterate imbecile as you apparently cannot read the word Large.Lol

But thank you for the spelling lesson.


Is SMA not large? Please teach me what exactly constitutes as large?


My apologies if SMA standing 15th on the list is to poor to afford a ship replacement program, might I subsequently suggest that Goonswarm has a really nice ship replacement program and that its current members might like to move out of the poor house and into something profitable.
Or maybe -A- I hear they might like an extra 2000 members atm.Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#306 - 2012-09-01 10:55:21 UTC
Andski wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Actually nothing. I came up in relation to personal risk of the player and as they are not funding the ship them selves they have no risk attached to it.

Edit: The bigger problem is that funding in alliances and corps is set the wrong way, it top down funding, not bottom up.


Um, the risk is shifted to the organizational level rather than the individual level. There's nothing wrong with that.

Organizational income should be bottom-up but there is literally no way to tax anything other than bounties. Taxing mining depends on making refining in home space worthwhile compared to hauling compressed ore out to empire and refining for free with a standings alt (broken as hell IMO) but it'd be real nice to see sales taxes from nullsec stations go to the owner of the station, rather than into a black hole. Of course that'd remove a sizable ISK sink but vOv

For once I will not argue with you. The amount of things broken in Null are insane, let alone the corporate system and taxation.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#307 - 2012-09-01 11:02:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Aruken Marr
Frying Doom wrote:

My apologies if SMA standing 15th on the list is to poor to afford a ship replacement program, might I subsequently suggest that Goonswarm has a really nice ship replacement program and that its current members might like to move out of the poor house and into something profitable.
Or maybe -A- I hear they might like an extra 2000 members atm.Lol


Nice dodge, but no. Not every large alliance has tech and can afford the means for an extensive SRP. You raised the point that nullsec players are risk averse because of SRPs. Well funnily enough there's players who play without SRP. Best accept that you were wrong on that one mate, don't try to dodge the point.

Frying Doom wrote:

For once I will not argue with you. The amount of things broken in Null are insane, let alone the corporate system and taxation.


Agreed there. Also agreed that the focus of income should be shifted to a bottom up scheme.
Frying Doom
#308 - 2012-09-01 11:06:25 UTC
Aruken Marr wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

My apologies if SMA standing 15th on the list is to poor to afford a ship replacement program, might I subsequently suggest that Goonswarm has a really nice ship replacement program and that its current members might like to move out of the poor house and into something profitable.
Or maybe -A- I hear they might like an extra 2000 members atm.Lol


Nice dodge, but no. Not every large has tech and can afford the means for an extensive SRP. You raised the point that nullsec players are risk averse because of SRPs. Well funnily enough there's players who play without SRP. Best accept that you were wrong on that one mate, don't try to dodge the point.

I am not dodging the point if an alliance has over 2000 members and can't afford a SRP then it is either new (to be honest I haven't followed that alliance) or it has something wrong with how its doing its finances or its actually padded its numbers with a lot of alts.

And again I would point them to Goonswarm or one of the other alliances.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#309 - 2012-09-01 11:09:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Aruken Marr
Frying Doom wrote:
Aruken Marr wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

My apologies if SMA standing 15th on the list is to poor to afford a ship replacement program, might I subsequently suggest that Goonswarm has a really nice ship replacement program and that its current members might like to move out of the poor house and into something profitable.
Or maybe -A- I hear they might like an extra 2000 members atm.Lol


Nice dodge, but no. Not every large has tech and can afford the means for an extensive SRP. You raised the point that nullsec players are risk averse because of SRPs. Well funnily enough there's players who play without SRP. Best accept that you were wrong on that one mate, don't try to dodge the point.

I am not dodging the point if an alliance has over 2000 members and can't afford a SRP then it is either new (to be honest I haven't followed that alliance) or it has something wrong with how its doing its finances or its actually padded its numbers with a lot of alts.

And again I would point them to Goonswarm or one of the other alliances.


That's another issue though and on that... no comment on what other alliances decide to do with their money as that's their prerogative. But, I think the only reason why we can afford both strat op and peacetime reimbursement is because we're smaller. But like I said thats just another issue with losec income mechanics.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#310 - 2012-09-01 11:11:46 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
I am not dodging the point if an alliance has over 2000 members and can't afford a SRP then it is either new (to be honest I haven't followed that alliance) or it has something wrong with how its doing its finances or its actually padded its numbers with a lot of alts.

And again I would point them to Goonswarm or one of the other alliances.


Other alliances have other priorities. SMA reimburses losses in strategic fleets, so they have an SRP similar to that of most other alliances, but they don't have a peacetime reimbursement program like GSF or TNT.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#311 - 2012-09-01 11:12:58 UTC
Andski wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I am not dodging the point if an alliance has over 2000 members and can't afford a SRP then it is either new (to be honest I haven't followed that alliance) or it has something wrong with how its doing its finances or its actually padded its numbers with a lot of alts.

And again I would point them to Goonswarm or one of the other alliances.


Other alliances have other priorities. SMA reimburses losses in strategic fleets, so they have an SRP similar to that of most other alliances, but they don't have a peacetime reimbursement program like GSF or TNT.


We have peacetime, but it's partial.
Frying Doom
#312 - 2012-09-01 11:17:26 UTC
Aruken Marr wrote:
Andski wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I am not dodging the point if an alliance has over 2000 members and can't afford a SRP then it is either new (to be honest I haven't followed that alliance) or it has something wrong with how its doing its finances or its actually padded its numbers with a lot of alts.

And again I would point them to Goonswarm or one of the other alliances.


Other alliances have other priorities. SMA reimburses losses in strategic fleets, so they have an SRP similar to that of most other alliances, but they don't have a peacetime reimbursement program like GSF or TNT.


We have peacetime, but it's partial.

Actually I was going to apologize, in your attacks I missed that you do have a SRP just not for peace time, so once again my statement that your do not have risk with ships is only partially true in that case.

So I guess that only makes you partially risk averse.Smile

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#313 - 2012-09-01 11:27:01 UTC
Who forced the players to move to Nullsec?

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#314 - 2012-09-01 11:27:25 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

Actually I was going to apologize, in your attacks I missed that you do have a SRP just not for peace time, so once again my statement that your do not have risk with ships is only partially true in that case.

So I guess that only makes you partially risk averse.Smile


Haha! That's not even a sarcastic laugh. Sometimes I don't even bother with it if that helps. But yeah it's nice that they have my back or at least part of it if lose something particularly expensive while having fun.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Tactical Farmers
#315 - 2012-09-01 11:31:14 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Sim Cognito wrote:
Remove them and increase base attributes by 5.

They're an outdated and restrictive mechanic that discourages nullsec and pvp interaction.


If you are too lazy to sort yourself jump clones

Yes, jumpclones which require you to literally jump through hoops to setup. It's a horrible solution to a dumb problem which discourages PVP.


Not really, but I can see why somebody like you would struggle to set up jump clones.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#316 - 2012-09-01 11:31:34 UTC
At least two ways I can think of to avoid losing precious implants: 1) once you can fly that assault ship with T2 fittings and perfect support skills, stop training (train your market alt instead) and 2) don't get so attached to your SP/hr score. Use +3s instead.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#317 - 2012-09-01 12:12:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Seleia O'Sinnor wrote:
Who forced the players to move to Nullsec?


Why should they be punished for it?

I mean we already have to deal with crappy industrial capabilities, a crappy sov system, risk/reward being so broken throughout the entire game that funding your PvP with a hisec alt is more viable than hopping around to run anoms, multiple nerfs in the last couple of years and other crap that makes nullsec more of a side attraction to dabble in with alts than a place to actually live in. Why should those who live in nullsec be punished for deciding to live there rather than just have an alt there in a supercap?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Frying Doom
#318 - 2012-09-01 12:23:12 UTC
Andski wrote:
Seleia O'Sinnor wrote:
Who forced the players to move to Nullsec?


Why should they be punished for it?

Why should you be rewarded for being risk averse?

You can use them but you choose not to because of the cost.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#319 - 2012-09-01 12:37:03 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Andski wrote:
Seleia O'Sinnor wrote:
Who forced the players to move to Nullsec?


Why should they be punished for it?

Why should you be rewarded for being risk averse?

You can use them but you choose not to because of the cost.


somehow i don't think you understand the definition of "risk averse"

"oh, you're not officer fitting your sabre? such risk aversion!"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Frying Doom
#320 - 2012-09-01 12:39:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Andski wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Andski wrote:
Seleia O'Sinnor wrote:
Who forced the players to move to Nullsec?


Why should they be punished for it?

Why should you be rewarded for being risk averse?

You can use them but you choose not to because of the cost.


somehow i don't think you understand the definition of "risk averse"

"oh, you're not officer fitting your sabre? such risk aversion!"

"Oh, you're not fitting learning implants? You must be having a strong dislike to risk or an opposition to loosing them!"

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!