These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

New defense tactics for in coming changes in FW
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#1 - 2012-09-01 08:55:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Bad Messenger
CCP is going to change radically FW again on next expansion.

System control tactic changes from taking systems for LP dump to holding systems for higher LP gain, also combined with LP from defence on contested systems.

So basically ideal for defended is to hold systems about 75% contested to get max lp gain from defending, so if you lose some lp from upgares you will get atleast something back with defending.

Also plexes get some npc changes and new restrictions for ships sizes.

with new rules you can stop clock just by being in side plex, so using max speed fitted T1 frigate is quite good, you orbit timer and defend, when enemy enters you take 150km orbit or more and avoid enemy.

Because enemy needs some ship that can tank and kill npc it is most unlikely that he will never catch you alone.

just wait that he leaves and return to timer.

Any better ideas anyone?

links to new changes: genelral changes

Plex and npc changes
Mra Rednu
Oyonata Gate Defence Force.
#2 - 2012-09-01 10:39:56 UTC
Maybe a new module for when they rebalance cruisers.

A lasoo, fitted on a e-war cruiser could fire a rope at the speed tanking frigate's that would stick to the frigate and as it orbited the button winds the rope around it gradually bringing it closer to be killed or crash in the button.
David Campbell
Primas Custos
#3 - 2012-09-01 10:45:10 UTC
I guess the risk of keeping a system at 75% contested in order to maximize defensive LP payouts is that you risk loosing that system to an organized and motivated opponent.
How many plexes do you need to go from 75% - 80% to 100% ? (That is a real question, I really don't know)
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#4 - 2012-09-01 10:48:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Bad Messenger
David Campbell wrote:
I guess the risk of keeping a system at 75% contested in order to maximize defensive LP payouts is that you risk loosing that system to an organized and motivated opponent.
How many plexes do you need to go from 75% - 80% to 100% ? (That is a real question, I really don't know)


you have to remember that speed tank alts can not capture plexes anymore when attacking, so number of people who will plex attack plexes will go down to what it was before inferno, so it is about 10 people in whole eve.

anyway if you defend it to about 60% when you go tot sleep it is about 70-80% on morning max
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch
#5 - 2012-09-01 11:05:37 UTC
Super awesome. I can roll out Maik Zierra 2, 3, 4, etc. prop up militia and still get the Akemons and Michis with untrained alts. It's good to be Caldari.
David Campbell
Primas Custos
#6 - 2012-09-01 11:05:59 UTC
I not sure the number of offensive plexer will drop back to pre-inferno levels, 20,000 LP for a small plex at tier 3 is still decent ISK.
But it's true that it may not be enough of an incentive to make a real push, we'll have to wait and see I guess.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#7 - 2012-09-01 11:16:47 UTC
David Campbell wrote:
I not sure the number of offensive plexer will drop back to pre-inferno levels, 20,000 LP for a small plex at tier 3 is still decent ISK.
But it's true that it may not be enough of an incentive to make a real push, we'll have to wait and see I guess.


You have to shoot npc, and there is no more reduced prices on lp shop so 20k lp is only 5k current lp
Stalking Mantis
Tr0pa de elite.
Fraternity.
#8 - 2012-09-01 12:45:03 UTC
I am only sad that they didnt discuss the 'reset timer' option.

Where if a farmer is driven out of a plex the timer starts to count down to 0.

Still leaves to much incentive for people to make farming alts. I guess CCP like the extra accounts people are making and it would not make business sense for them to kill a cash cow.

At least for someone like me plexing is a means to getting a fight, whatever lp is a bonus for me. Unlike 85% of militia though plexing in itself is the goal.

If i go into vlill alone with 9 wartargets in local and manage a good kill without capturing a plex I am a happy man. I will take that over capturing any plex or lp i would get from it.

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#9 - 2012-09-01 13:05:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Bad Messenger
Stalking Mantis wrote:
I am only sad that they didnt discuss the 'reset timer' option.

Where if a farmer is driven out of a plex the timer starts to count down to 0.

Still leaves to much incentive for people to make farming alts. I guess CCP like the extra accounts people are making and it would not make business sense for them to kill a cash cow.

At least for someone like me plexing is a means to getting a fight, whatever lp is a bonus for me. Unlike 85% of militia though plexing in itself is the goal.

If i go into vlill alone with 9 wartargets in local and manage a good kill without capturing a plex I am a happy man. I will take that over capturing any plex or lp i would get from it.



I prefer idea that we kill others for some greater reason than just for fun.

FW should have some goal to achieve and capturing systems has been common goal to whole militia in this current system, it has been working fine.

Only thing that has been bit faulty is that only alts have been capturing plexes and real fights for those did not happen much.

Only some certain systems have had intensive fights.

New mechanics does not really bring any more reasons to fight for systems, it sure ends afk attack plex farming and kills whole FW once again.

But changes for plexes does not make fightning any more easier in those, those who are inside plex gets more advantage than before, so i wonder who dare go in plex with equal numbers or even with little more people.

all that happens is that FW goes for same blob warfare than 0.0 already is, i do not see why we need more places for same kind of action. We can see that t1 cruisers are pretty much useless after this change for plexing.
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch
#10 - 2012-09-01 14:45:30 UTC
And just imagine what kind of "bum rush the systems" you will get right at the end. That will determine who wins the war and that's it. We will be left with exactly two militias in the game and taking systems is no longer in the books since losing side will lose all their members and other side can just send defense plexers at whim.

Once again, CCP screws it up completely. I think this clip summarises it all....
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#11 - 2012-09-01 15:08:09 UTC
75% contested means system has lost all upgrades, so it will only be applicable for fringe/redundant systems that are not needed to maintain a given WZC tier. For upgraded systems, will primarily be out of the way and/or core systems, the alt armies will have to start orbiting before LP buffer is depleted.

Otherwise, yeah. Still not "feeling" the urge to defend much of anything as I don't do alts ... but suggested changes are heaps better than what Inferno brought Smile
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#12 - 2012-09-01 18:13:19 UTC
Very odd that I'd actually agree with Bad Messenger about something, but yes, CCP seem to be throwing out broken Inferno mechanics for new as yet unnamed broken FW mechanics.

Already there are glaring issues (such as the one BM pointed out); or NPCs that stop the timer that arrive 1 by 1 in some sort of annoying conga line stopping and starting the plex timer to lengthen boring button orbitting even further.

I hope I'm wrong, but I see FW becomming a stale boring place again very soon after the changes in the new year.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#13 - 2012-09-01 18:14:38 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
75% contested means system has lost all upgrades, so it will only be applicable for fringe/redundant systems that are not needed to maintain a given WZC tier. For upgraded systems, will primarily be out of the way and/or core systems, the alt armies will have to start orbiting before LP buffer is depleted.

Otherwise, yeah. Still not "feeling" the urge to defend much of anything as I don't do alts ... but suggested changes are heaps better than what Inferno brought Smile


you can sure upgrade system when it is 75% contested?
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#14 - 2012-09-01 20:33:12 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
75% contested means system has lost all upgrades, so it will only be applicable for fringe/redundant systems that are not needed to maintain a given WZC tier. For upgraded systems, will primarily be out of the way and/or core systems, the alt armies will have to start orbiting before LP buffer is depleted.

Otherwise, yeah. Still not "feeling" the urge to defend much of anything as I don't do alts ... but suggested changes are heaps better than what Inferno brought Smile


you can sure upgrade system when it is 75% contested?

No, the point is that you never bother upgrading the chaff systems, dump LP in just enough +1 to get desired tier and defensive farm the rest.
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#15 - 2012-09-01 22:03:14 UTC
Quote:
* Increase contested range: at the moment an hostile pilot will only contest a capture timer if he is within capture range (whose reach varies depending on the point above). We want to move the contested area to the whole complex range, which would mean as long as hostile pilot is within your room the capture timer would be paused.


*Gets in dramiel, plays the trolololo song*
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-09-02 01:58:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrett
Super Chair wrote:
Quote:
* Increase contested range: at the moment an hostile pilot will only contest a capture timer if he is within capture range (whose reach varies depending on the point above). We want to move the contested area to the whole complex range, which would mean as long as hostile pilot is within your room the capture timer would be paused.


*Gets in dramiel, plays the trolololo song*


Yep. This is the most glaring problem. Otherwise, I am cautiously optimistic.

Edit: I don't like the ship restriction changes either.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Dread Operative
Main Corporation
Prisoners With Jobs
#17 - 2012-09-02 04:22:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Dread Operative
The ship restrictions are crap!
Squatdog
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-09-02 06:47:58 UTC
So I guess we can look forward to perma-trolling plexes with MWD Condor alts and having ranged ships get dumped at scram range to the button on warp in.

The restrictions mean we're forced to ship down to T1 frigs for 'minors' (I literally don't even have a t1 frig on this character), and can look forward to Falcons in 'mediums'. Yay.
Dan Carter Murray
#19 - 2012-09-02 06:53:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Dan Carter Murray
Squatdog wrote:
So I guess we can look forward to perma-trolling plexes with MWD Condor alts and having ranged ships get dumped at scram range to the button on warp in.

The restrictions mean we're forced to ship down to T1 frigs for 'minors' (I literally don't even have a t1 frig on this character), and can look forward to Falcons in 'mediums'. Yay.


plex size changes including plex size restriction and button distance is ******* ********.
the only change they needed to make for plex changes is to require rats to be dead for timer to count down, and reverse timer when no one is in the plex.


edit: the npc dmg and tank i agree with though (to equalize things)

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#20 - 2012-09-02 16:30:48 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
Squatdog wrote:
So I guess we can look forward to perma-trolling plexes with MWD Condor alts and having ranged ships get dumped at scram range to the button on warp in.

The restrictions mean we're forced to ship down to T1 frigs for 'minors' (I literally don't even have a t1 frig on this character), and can look forward to Falcons in 'mediums'. Yay.


plex size changes including plex size restriction and button distance is ******* ********.
the only change they needed to make for plex changes is to require rats to be dead for timer to count down, and reverse timer when no one is in the plex.


edit: the npc dmg and tank i agree with though (to equalize things)



More or less this ^.


They are making some huge changes with unknown effects. Which is what they already did, and we see where that got us..
And if they take another 6 months to correct that mess?
123Next pageLast page