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The Highsec quandry.
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Russell Casey
Doomheim
#121 - 2012-08-30 21:37:13 UTC
*Wonders how many war dec'ers would scream when their scout/logistic alts got killed under this system*
Herr Hammer Draken
#122 - 2012-08-30 21:46:49 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
So ganking has in some part received one more nail in its resplendent coffin.
So in review hulks are still easily killed yet for very little loss in yield everyone can move to more heavily tanked super cargo miners.

The problem: its harder to gank them in 8 seconds so they must be nerfed? No.
NPC CORPS.
The true problem is NPC corps. Safety nets for the wardeck uninclined. The only desire to truly leave them in highsec is if you mission run due to taxes. Why would the masses of miners want to leave this sanctuary?
Nothing. Ore cant be taxed as it is collected unlike bounties.

I would suggest the Empire Ore Permit issued in a joint venture from ORE and Concord due to the lack or resources from within the built up empires.
You can ONLY mine in highsec as a player corp for a small insignificant fee (included in your corporation registration so you wont notice it) to force you into a player corp. Any player corp. Just to be a valid target as a entrepreneur.

What would this cause?
War targets.
What would see more use?
Mercenaries.
What about new players?
A 30 day miner permit that is only useful for pilots under 30 days old. Much like the Cerebral Accelerator booster.

What if I try and mine while in a NPC corp?
Concord shows up and confiscates any miner highslots from your fit. (after a warning screen for an invalid target of course)

Haulers can still be protected in NPC corps though.
Not that ganking them was ever hard and could still happen to save on wardec cost. Yet we could always make ore illegal if not in a player corp. How about that?

Or forgo the games and just kick people out of neutral NPC corps into FW corps after a month or two. NPC corps should not be a cloak of protection in an otherwise already safe zone. There are plenty of mechanics available to players to survive outside of NPC corps. It's a big world out there.

As if I wasn't clear enough:
DOWN WITH NPC CORPS.
Time to expose people to the universe. It brings validity to everyone's actions.
Most would still never be bothered due to new wardec costs for small groups anyway but enough of the shielding. This can just be a small part of a whole slew of changes. Bring in clone changes and change other risk adverse breeding mechanics and people may actually get involved with the game at large and stop being scenery "look but don't touch" while they screw with the game at large with idiotic pretenses like "I mined it, its free".
And of course the bots.
edit: This was almost new again. seems a ton of **** was necroed recently.


Somebody wants to be able to pick on the noobs easy targets to get easy kills. hehe, Those older players already in corps are just too damn hard to war dec as they can kill me easier than I can kill them. So my oh my down with the NPC corps. hehe I want to kill newbies. Down with NPC corps. I want easy targets. Drive those new players right out of eve. Down with NPC corps. HAHA If he is NOT CLEAR ENOUGH...he wants easy noob targets. DOWN WITH NPC corps. This CCP protecting noobs has to end. We want to drive them out of the game. Down with NPC corps. I want targets, I mean he is a target for all of the other older corps so he wants to pick on somebody smaller than he is like noobs. Down with NPC corps.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#123 - 2012-08-30 22:10:08 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Virgil Travis wrote:
I'm liking the ideas, NPC corps are part of the reason so much ganking has been going on in high sec, it's the only recourse some people had since the NPC corps can't be war decced. I think the idea of preventing all those mining alts from sitting in NPC corps has some merit, if they want to affect the economy they should have to deal with the possibility of others affecting their livelihood.

That would sure shake things up. Twisted

That's all it is. And the apathy of a few individuals shows just how often it has come up before. Yet this most glaring flaw has yet been addressed. Only a few symptoms but not the disease.
It's not miners, its not gankers, its not the act of living in highsec. It stems from NPC corps. The revamp of the wardeck system is pointless still. Once npc is the proper rookie stepping stone as they always should have been. The new mechanics actually become used.


This idea also makes like more fair for missions runners.

Mission runners have to pay taxes in NPC corps, miners (even if they aren't introducing new isk into the game) should pay for the npc corp protections as well, as should traders and haulers in some way. The current npc corp scheme is Un-EVE-like.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#124 - 2012-08-30 22:18:43 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Somebody wants to be able to pick on the noobs easy targets to get easy kills. hehe


Hey youngen. Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not an alt. How much would you say you know about the game after two months now? After doing tutorials and all that shtick.

Serious input as I actually don't want to hurt new players.
I want to hurt the ones on welfare who are in fact capable of honest work, but would rather have the cake and eat it too.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#125 - 2012-08-30 22:21:57 UTC
People hiding behind the oh the bad man wants to hurt the new guy argument again. Its deff not the hey these people are hiding in NPC corps that cant be wardec and they are 3 4 or 5 years old.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#126 - 2012-08-30 22:23:33 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Somebody wants to be able to pick on the noobs easy targets to get easy kills. hehe


Hey youngen. Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not an alt. How much would you say you know about the game after two months now? After doing tutorials and all that shtick.

Serious input as I actually don't want to hurt new players.
I want to hurt the ones on welfare who are in fact capable of honest work, but would rather have the cake and eat it too.


OMG so much this. It's all about fairness.
Arec Bardwin
#127 - 2012-08-30 23:06:01 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:

DOWN WITH NPC CORPS.
Shall I do a formal Heil salute while shouting this, or will a more relaxed Heil salute do?
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#128 - 2012-08-30 23:11:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Roll Sizzle Beef
Arec Bardwin wrote:
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:

DOWN WITH NPC CORPS.
Shall I do a formal Heil salute while shouting this, or will a more relaxed Heil salute do?

Furvor is appreciated, but whatever fits your energy level for the moment.
Herr Hammer Draken
#129 - 2012-08-30 23:19:37 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Somebody wants to be able to pick on the noobs easy targets to get easy kills. hehe


Hey youngen. Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not an alt. How much would you say you know about the game after two months now? After doing tutorials and all that shtick.

Serious input as I actually don't want to hurt new players.
I want to hurt the ones on welfare who are in fact capable of honest work, but would rather have the cake and eat it too.


OMG so much this. It's all about fairness.



And they can not war dec you either. The grass is always greener on the other side of the tracks.

I say this because if being in an NPC corp is so much better than being in a player corp then why are you in a player corp?

Everybody is free to choose where they want to be in EVE. Fact is you made your choice and could be in a NPC corp if you wanted. My guess is you all have an alt in a NPC corp that is probably 3+ years old right now anyway.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#130 - 2012-08-31 00:08:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Roll Sizzle Beef
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Somebody wants to be able to pick on the noobs easy targets to get easy kills. hehe


Hey youngen. Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not an alt. How much would you say you know about the game after two months now? After doing tutorials and all that shtick.

Serious input as I actually don't want to hurt new players.
I want to hurt the ones on welfare who are in fact capable of honest work, but would rather have the cake and eat it too.


OMG so much this. It's all about fairness.



And they can not war dec you either. The grass is always greener on the other side of the tracks.

I say this because if being in an NPC corp is so much better than being in a player corp then why are you in a player corp?

Everybody is free to choose where they want to be in EVE. Fact is you made your choice and could be in a NPC corp if you wanted. My guess is you all have an alt in a NPC corp that is probably 3+ years old right now anyway.


Way to go answering that question, alt.
And all my alts are in player corps. I like funny names that match my characters if they are casual loners OOP.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#131 - 2012-08-31 06:24:16 UTC
NPC corps should just be at war with other NPC corps. Factional warfare but with jamming/scramming/webbing/neuting after 15-30 secs of being on grid in enemy faction space.

Light out!

Guerilla radio!

Turn that **** up!
TharOkha
0asis Group
#132 - 2012-08-31 11:07:32 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Quote:
Virgil Travis:

So high sec should be free of consequences with no way for a corp to counter the competition of miners sitting in NPC corps stripping belts all day? Why shouldn't they be allowed to have other options besides ganking them, that's what the war dec system was intended for, one corp sets up in an area and finds there are others competing for those same resources so it takes action by possibly declaring war and driving those others out.



Please dont be so pathetic. I have never seen any hisec mining corp wardeccing another hisec mining corp over hisec asteroid fields. We all know that OP is just about wardeccing miners in NPC corps, not about wardeccing PvPers in NPC corps. Its all about easy targets Blink

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#133 - 2012-08-31 12:58:10 UTC
TharOkha wrote:

Please dont be so pathetic. I have never seen any hisec mining corp wardeccing another hisec mining corp over hisec asteroid fields. We all know that OP is just about wardeccing miners in NPC corps, not about wardeccing PvPers in NPC corps. Its all about easy targets Blink

Yes. Because if you have never seen it, it never happened.
And of course its about wardecks. We have mentioned multiple times why. If you're having a hard time seeing the differance between rookies and older players abusing the system for mindless 99% risk free minging but 89% proffitable isk/hr mission active grinding. Why let the most fundamental game effecting activity receive zero drawbacks compaired to everyone else in game? Atleast mission runners pay a security tax.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#134 - 2012-08-31 13:02:05 UTC
TharOkha wrote:


Please dont be so pathetic. I have never seen any hisec mining corp wardeccing another hisec mining corp over hisec asteroid fields. We all know that OP is just about wardeccing miners in NPC corps, not about wardeccing PvPers in NPC corps. Its all about easy targets Blink


I have. Granted it was ~5 years ago. It was more to force them out of an area that had good belt counts and station layouts.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#135 - 2012-08-31 13:32:10 UTC
So please point out how NPC miners and market players dont effect my game and point out one valid method of countering that beside ganking or bumping because you call that greifing. No this is not targeted at the new player this is targeted at players that are old enough to fly hulk or maks. Pretty sure you cant fly either of those in the first 30 days. So tell me how this is all a grand idea to kill helpless newbies?
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#136 - 2012-08-31 13:43:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Just leave people be...

Does the fact that people sit in NPC corp really bug you that much?

If it really such an issue why put through in features to just limit the ships sizes a player can use in a n NPC corp like they do with trial account, unless your in FW.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#137 - 2012-08-31 13:55:08 UTC
Counter proposal:

Replace starter NPC Corps with "CONCORD Capsuleer Program" (CCP lol) or something similar.

Everyone is placed in the same starter corp, this also means if two friends decide to join the game together then they will know they will be in the same corp etc.

The code checks two things:

1) Is the player over X skill points?
2) Is the player over day 30?

If both answer yes then the player is told that they cannot train anymore skill points without being transferred to an NPC FW corp or until they join a player corp.

Any player who leaves their corp is put into the FW corp with the highest standings towards them.

This way newbies have somewhere safe to hide, people who don't want to join player corps can avoid it but they'd have to join a corp involved in FW and it encourages people to leave the invincible NPC corps of unwardeccableness.

Backstory to justify change:

Each of the milita has started to conscript capsuleers into their fleet, the law states that only two types of capsuleers cannot be conscripted: Members of the CCP (lol) program or members of privately owned capsuleer corporations.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Anslo
Scope Works
#138 - 2012-08-31 13:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
MIrple wrote:
People hiding behind the oh the bad man wants to hurt the new guy argument again. Its deff not the hey these people are hiding in NPC corps that cant be wardec and they are 3 4 or 5 years old.


So what? It's a GAME. If they want to play that way, let them ******* play that way. Jesus christ what is wrong with bitter vets and PvPers? You all sound like a bunch of blathering fascist idiots.

Just let them play the gods damn game their own gods damn way and you go play your way. It's none of your business how they play or not. It's not your choice. You don't own them. You don't own the game. If they wanna NPC it up, all the more power to them if that floats their boat and makes them happy/relaxed.

If pewpewing people on a gate or belts or in a roam is what floats your boat and gets you happy/relaxed, even more power to YOU.

But what the flying ******* **** on a stick with a side bucket of god ******* dammit is it with people bashing on carebears?! Bots, is one thing, everyone agrees they should be ganked...but the actual carebear players? Jeesh.

No wonder people don't play this game so much, our player base/community elitists suck.

EDIT: Also, all this talk about "Fairness" and "them not getting taxed," suck it up. Mining doesn't exactly get these people in 2billion isk ships. They just wanna hear their miner beams fire, the rocks crumble, and the chatting amongst their corp mates. They aren't magically given some uber advantage over you.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#139 - 2012-08-31 14:03:29 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:



And they can not war dec you either. The grass is always greener on the other side of the tracks. [/quote]

The problems with NPC corps go beyond war dec ability, players in NPC corps can't do some things sure, but the tradeoff is they can't be killed in empire without suicidng.

Quote:

I say this because if being in an NPC corp is so much better than being in a player corp then why are you in a player corp?


Because it's my corp and I don't tax myself lol when I run missions. NPC corp MISSION RUNNERS and EXPLORERS are paying a tax for their primary activity, the miners aren't (which still being immune to al but suicide attacks) thus the fairness issue. I had incentive to make my corp, high sec miners largely don't.

Quote:

Everybody is free to choose where they want to be in EVE. Fact is you made your choice and could be in a NPC corp if you wanted. My guess is you all have an alt in a NPC corp that is probably 3+ years old right now anyway.


I have 4 accounts and 12 characters, none of them are in npc corps, not a single one. The one I just made spent all of 15 mins in the started corp before I put it in my corp.

People like you always try to turn it into a matter of "play style" (the 2 most over-used words in this game imo). It's not, it's a matter of an even playing field for all.

I exchange lower (non-existant lol) taxes for my exploring and mission running for the threat of war and disruption, miners should have to as well.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#140 - 2012-08-31 14:10:38 UTC
Anslo wrote:
MIrple wrote:
People hiding behind the oh the bad man wants to hurt the new guy argument again. Its deff not the hey these people are hiding in NPC corps that cant be wardec and they are 3 4 or 5 years old.


So what? It's a GAME. If they want to play that way, let them ******* play that way. Jesus christ what is wrong with bitter vets and PvPers? You all sound like a bunch of blathering fascist idiots.

Just let them play the gods damn game their own gods damn way and you go play your way. It's none of your business how they play or not. It's not your choice. You don't own them. You don't own the game. If they wanna NPC it up, all the more power to them if that floats their boat and makes them happy/relaxed.

If pewpewing people on a gate or belts or in a roam is what floats your boat and gets you happy/relaxed, even more power to YOU.

But what the flying ******* **** on a stick with a side bucket of god ******* dammit is it with people bashing on carebears?! Bots, is one thing, everyone agrees they should be ganked...but the actual carebear players? Jeesh.

No wonder people don't play this game so much, our player base/community elitists suck.


Translation: Let them affect you (every mineral they mine lowers the price of anything I would mine) without any consequeces other than suicide attacks, and be happy about it!

In a word, NO!

People can be in npc corps as long as they want as long as they can only fly shuttles (with self-destruct disabled so they can't affect the insurance market) and in no way affect any part of the game. The unfariness/imbalance part is simpyl the miners in npc corps.

The mission runners are fine, they are sinking isk that would otherwise enter the economy if they were in player corps and taking in less personal income as a trade off for war dec invulnerability, but miners are introducing more material into the game without having to worry about anything but the (now harder) suicide ganker.