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The Vigilant
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Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#1 - 2012-08-31 01:13:22 UTC
I recently became able to fly and fit this enough for me to consider using it for solo/small gang pvp, however most feed back I've received on it has been rather negative.

What's your personal opinion on the Vigilant for pvp, please strive to be as constructive and informative as possible.

If you think that the Vigilant is bad, what changes would need to be made before you'd find it viable?

If you like using the Vigilant, what do you use it for and how?

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Belthazor4011
Battle BV Redux
#2 - 2012-08-31 02:43:56 UTC
Well thats an easy one to be honest, yes its great. Its combination of web bonus and DPS is litterally insane. But when you say PVP you have to take cost and risk in mind. That said is it worth the price difference over a normal Thorax or a Deimos...

Nah in most cases it isnt, if you'd fly one I'd be very careful because people will get in line to take a shot at you...
Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#3 - 2012-08-31 05:24:38 UTC
Just make sure you use a shield / nano fit, because blasters are working as intended (as autocannons).

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#4 - 2012-08-31 05:46:07 UTC
Vig has massive DPS for a cruiser hull. It will surprise anybody you catch. 'Catch' is the key word. You need to be selective on your targets, because any ship that CAN kite you, WILL kite you.
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#5 - 2012-08-31 05:48:41 UTC
Dorian Tormak wrote:
Just make sure you use a shield / nano fit, because blasters are working as intended (as autocannons).


For Solo pvp that sounds pretty terrible, I mean it has 4 mid slots and it NEEDS to have a web/scram and a prop mod to be useable...

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Katalci
Kismesis
#6 - 2012-08-31 06:22:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Katalci
I would use something like this. You could remove the cap booster for a second web or a scram to eliminate the need for a 1% PG implant, but then you might die to something that sneezes at your capacitor. It's quite fast; you should be able to catch any BC and probably kill them as well. An armorcane might give you some problems, though.

If you prefer a scram or want to cut the cost slightly, use a TS scram and a meta 4 web.

[Vigilant, Single-Web MWD]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Hammerhead II x5
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#7 - 2012-08-31 09:28:39 UTC
Katalci wrote:
I would use something like this. You could remove the cap booster for a second web or a scram to eliminate the need for a 1% PG implant, but then you might die to something that sneezes at your capacitor. It's quite fast; you should be able to catch any BC and probably kill them as well. An armorcane might give you some problems, though.

If you prefer a scram or want to cut the cost slightly, use a TS scram and a meta 4 web.

[Vigilant, Single-Web MWD]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Hammerhead II x5


That's a brick. Not worth flying a vigilant if you fit it like that tbh... people will try to kill you first most of the time, so being able to disengage is paramount.


[Vigilant, ASB]

Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Co-Processor II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Hammerhead II x5


This isn't a standard fit but it allows you to dictate range: Which is what a webbing ship should be doing. That means being able to stay ontop of a target or keep at a distance from it.
Denuo Secus
#8 - 2012-08-31 10:01:27 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
...but it allows you to dictate range: Which is what a webbing ship should be doing. That means being able to stay ontop of a target or keep at a distance from it.


This makes no sense...or I don't get your logic ^^ Even fitted as armor brick the Vigi should be able dictate range pretty fine. Exactly because of the 90% web.
Robert Lefcourt
BigPoppaMonkeys
E.B.O.L.A.
#9 - 2012-08-31 10:11:18 UTC
Denuo Secus wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
...but it allows you to dictate range: Which is what a webbing ship should be doing. That means being able to stay ontop of a target or keep at a distance from it.


This makes no sense...or I don't get your logic ^^ Even fitted as armor brick the Vigi should be able dictate range pretty fine. Exactly because of the 90% web.


Depends on the target. A Cynabal, for example, will orbit you at 20km - and there's nothing you can do about it. On the other side, there's no fitting which can prevent that.


regards,

rob
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-08-31 10:18:49 UTC
vigilant is a great great ship.
ive honestly never heard anyone say it isnt.

obviously, like with all ships, you need to choose your targets but like i said, this applies to ALL ships.
saying a vigilant is bad because a cynabal can kite it is about as valid as saying that a cynabal is bad because it can be killed easily by a dual web loki.

There is no Bob.

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Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#11 - 2012-08-31 13:34:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Dorian Tormak
Jack Miton wrote:
obviously, like with all ships, you need to choose your targets but like i said, this applies to ALL ships.
saying a vigilant is bad because a cynabal can kite it is about as valid as saying that a cynabal is bad because it can be killed easily by a dual web loki.

You should not be scared of a Cynabal anyway, because a good Vigi fit should be able to hit easily out to 30km. I speak of the mythical shield / nano Vigilant.

It's still suffering from the Gallente hate from before they buffed Gallente. People were logical enough to fit out a Cynabal for long range, but when it came to a Gallente version it was always, "well, Gallente suck, time to throw on some trimarks."

That is not how to Vigilant. Shield Vigi could kite an armor Cynabal, too, but people just never hated Minmatar enough to do that very often :|

Edit: It really just comes down to everybody believing what they've been told, rather than thinking for themselves. That's all it is. I feel bad for the Vigilant.

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#12 - 2012-08-31 13:41:56 UTC
Robert Lefcourt wrote:
Denuo Secus wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
...but it allows you to dictate range: Which is what a webbing ship should be doing. That means being able to stay ontop of a target or keep at a distance from it.


This makes no sense...or I don't get your logic ^^ Even fitted as armor brick the Vigi should be able dictate range pretty fine. Exactly because of the 90% web.


Depends on the target. A Cynabal, for example, will orbit you at 20km - and there's nothing you can do about it. On the other side, there's no fitting which can prevent that.


regards,

rob


Except maybe the one i posted. It will do similar damage at that range to the cynabal. The cyna needs to go closer to 30km to gain any real DPS advantage. Factor in 10 medium drones and the active tank on the vigilant and things get a little blurry. Most people will just disengage at that point.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-08-31 15:32:50 UTC
thats one horrible vigilant ASB setup.

Single ASB is questionable but a vigi with ONE! *ONE!* magstab is fail every day.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#14 - 2012-08-31 15:39:12 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
thats one horrible vigilant ASB setup.

Single ASB is questionable but a vigi with ONE! *ONE!* magstab is fail every day.


Because that number on EFT means everything.

It's not like increasing your *EFFECTIVE* dps is a big deal is it?

Good luck in your 250mil cruiser with 80kEHP, 3 magstabs and 12km falloff.
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#15 - 2012-08-31 16:25:48 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
thats one horrible vigilant ASB setup.

Single ASB is questionable but a vigi with ONE! *ONE!* magstab is fail every day.


Because that number on EFT means everything.

It's not like increasing your *EFFECTIVE* dps is a big deal is it?

Good luck in your 250mil cruiser with 80kEHP, 3 magstabs and 12km falloff.



Actually I'm going to have to agree with Maud, what about getting rid of two tracking enhancers and putting in another Magstab + a nanofiber?

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#16 - 2012-08-31 18:22:48 UTC
Roderick Grey wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
thats one horrible vigilant ASB setup.

Single ASB is questionable but a vigi with ONE! *ONE!* magstab is fail every day.


Because that number on EFT means everything.

It's not like increasing your *EFFECTIVE* dps is a big deal is it?

Good luck in your 250mil cruiser with 80kEHP, 3 magstabs and 12km falloff.



Actually I'm going to have to agree with Maud, what about getting rid of two tracking enhancers and putting in another Magstab + a nanofiber?


Nanofiber wont increase your speed by a huge amount - you have a 90% web, an extra 150ms while MWD'ing is nothing - the agility is alright but hardly worth loosing all that range.

1 more magstab will increase your dps by a whopping 90 while decreasing your effective range by nearly 10km (these numbers are with null - which you will be using with a more kite orientate build, correct?)

Hell, you can even use Faction AM and STILL have more falloff with the extra 2 TE's and still have more DPS than the 2x Magstab fit not to mention using the AM ammo gives you 50% more tracking versus Null on a 1x TE build at that range.

Long story short, unless you are sitting on someones face - the TE's are better than the Magstab + Nano combo. And why would you sit on someones face if you have a 90% 14km web? Only for hauler kills or other undefended targets, which means your fit doesnt change anything.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#17 - 2012-08-31 18:27:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
The answer is to adopt the Podla Drake philosophy. If you're in hull you're already ******. Drop the DC for a MFS.

-Liang

Ed: Also, an XL ASB on a kiting ship may be sacrificing too much. You shouldn't really be taking that much damage. The longevity of the XL is undeniable though. Those cap charges last forever on kiting setups.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#18 - 2012-08-31 18:30:08 UTC
From what I've seen the Vigilant is great at station games. Blaster DPS, and close range doesn't matter much when you fight at 100m anyway.
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#19 - 2012-08-31 18:30:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Roderick Grey
Liang Nuren wrote:
The answer is to adopt the Podla Drake philosophy. If you're in hull you're already ******. Drop the DC for a MFS.

-Liang

Ed: Also, an XL ASB on a kiting ship may be sacrificing too much. You shouldn't really be taking that much damage. The longevity of the XL is undeniable though. Those cap charges last forever on kiting setups.


I think it's more for the resists (shield), which are very important on an active tank.

Off topic: Why do you insist on having a signature outside of your signature, we know you're liang, your name is right there to the left.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#20 - 2012-08-31 18:37:57 UTC
Roderick Grey wrote:

I think it's more for the resists (shield), which are very important on an active tank.


There are three kinds of tanking:
- Mitigation tank (resists)
- Avoidance tank (make most of the damage miss)
- Repair tank (fix it when they hit you)

You're suggesting a mitigation+repair tank while I'm suggesting an avoidance+repair tank. No resist T1 ASB tanks work fine (kiting or not), mostly because of the raw power of the ASB. A while back, I engaged:
Talos, Oracle vs Domi, Drake, Ishkur, Executioner

The Talos "tanked" them for a long time before being briefly forced off the field. Mostly via avoidance.

Quote:

Off topic: Why do you insist on having a signature outside of your signature, we know you're liang, your name is right there to the left.


Because, I do.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
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