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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Signal Distortion Amps should affect all Primary E-War

Author
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2012-08-29 23:33:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
A quick thought:

What would be the result of making all primary e-war types (Remote Sensor Damps, Tracking Disruptors, Target Painters) affected by Signal Distortion Amps in the same way as ECM is? Would this be a good and fairly low-effort step towards balancing all racial e-war types?

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
Parasitic Legion.
#2 - 2012-08-29 23:46:20 UTC
I would say the cost of SDAs would go up.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#3 - 2012-08-30 00:02:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
Scatim Helicon wrote:
A quick thought:

What would be the result of making all primary e-war types (Remote Sensor Damps, Tracking Disruptors, Target Painters) affected by Signal Distortion Amps in the same way as ECM is? Would this be a good and fairly low-effort step towards balancing all racial e-war types?


Stealth nerf to armor tanking!

Now to the point, no, as theres no reason not to remove SDA or simply buff SD/TP/TD to be more effective w/o SDA.

ECM is by its very design overpowered, because it makes target unable to attack or assist other on success. When TD on logi have the same effect as ECM on logi, we'll have balance (read never).


I'd balance it differently, however. If every race could use any EWAR type, there would be no more bitching about Caldari EWAR being overpowered.
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2012-08-30 08:37:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
A quick thought:

What would be the result of making all primary e-war types (Remote Sensor Damps, Tracking Disruptors, Target Painters) affected by Signal Distortion Amps in the same way as ECM is? Would this be a good and fairly low-effort step towards balancing all racial e-war types?


Stealth nerf to armor tanking!

Now to the point, no, as theres no reason not to remove SDA or simply buff SD/TP/TD to be more effective w/o SDA.

ECM is by its very design overpowered, because it makes target unable to attack or assist other on success. When TD on logi have the same effect as ECM on logi, we'll have balance (read never).


I'd balance it differently, however. If every race could use any EWAR type, there would be no more bitching about Caldari EWAR being overpowered.

I've never seen a suggestion to changing ECM effects which didn't make it utterly useless 99% of the time, so this is an attempt to approach the problem from the opposite direction and bring the other types of e-war up a level. Your suggestion of giving every race every e-war doesn't fix anything, since a) you can already fit any e-war on any racial hull, and b) if you're talking about hull bonuses all you end up doing is homogenizing the dedicated e-war hulls into a generic bland muddle.

And giving slot options isn't a nerf to anything, stealth or otherwise. You could just as easily argue that its a stealth nerf to shield buffering and tanking because it makes the midslot E-War modules more attractive and encourages players to put something other than extenders and hardeners in there.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2012-08-30 08:47:49 UTC
I dunno, having a bunch of formerly-useless mods become useful would really complicate fitting choices :3

I hadn't really thought about it, but really it's dumb as hell that ECM is the only ewar type that can be boosted through mods.
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2012-08-30 18:41:53 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
I dunno, having a bunch of formerly-useless mods become useful would really complicate fitting choices :3

I hadn't really thought about it, but really it's dumb as hell that ECM is the only ewar type that can be boosted through mods.

Its odd that ECM works completely differently to all the other e-war types, this is one way to move them a little closer together as well as buffing the e-war types other than ECM.

Originally I was going to post this as a much deeper change to bring all the e-war onto the same page by making all the Primary e-war types use a comparison of their "e-war strength" (new characteristic) vs the target's sensor strength to modify the strength of the e-war effect, but this way seems a little less radical.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Velicitia
XS Tech
#7 - 2012-08-30 19:23:12 UTC
ECM breaking your locks -- OK
ECM keeping you from locking anything -- NOT OK.

If they changed ECM to "can't lock anything whilst jammed ... EXCEPT that bastard in the falcon who's jamming you" then it'd be a little better (note, multiple falcons jamming you means they're all valid ... otherwise 2x falcon end up working like it does right now).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2012-08-30 19:31:31 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
ECM breaking your locks -- OK
ECM keeping you from locking anything -- NOT OK.

If they changed ECM to "can't lock anything whilst jammed ... EXCEPT that bastard in the falcon who's jamming you" then it'd be a little better (note, multiple falcons jamming you means they're all valid ... otherwise 2x falcon end up working like it does right now).


That falls into the 'overnerf ECM into utter uselessness' clause I mentioned above.

Also, the 'nerf ECM' thread is somewhere else (everywhere else), but thanks for the bump.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Loius Woo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-08-30 19:38:28 UTC
Nestara Aldent wrote:
If every race could use any EWAR type, there would be no more bitching about Caldari EWAR being overpowered.


There is no restriction preventing you from using ECM as a different race....

You just don't have ships that bonus it.

Also, its really poor form to use italics and underlines to highlight your entire post. You should use it more sparingly and only for emphasis.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#10 - 2012-08-30 20:00:24 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
A quick thought:

What would be the result of making all primary e-war types (Remote Sensor Damps, Tracking Disruptors, Target Painters) affected by Signal Distortion Amps in the same way as ECM is? Would this be a good and fairly low-effort step towards balancing all racial e-war types?


I'm not sure if it would be better for SDA's to affect all ewar mods, or to have new modules like SDA's for each ewar type.... While making the SDA alter all EWAR would be simple, I'm not certain 10% boosts to each ewar type is appropriate...
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2012-08-30 21:06:57 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
A quick thought:

What would be the result of making all primary e-war types (Remote Sensor Damps, Tracking Disruptors, Target Painters) affected by Signal Distortion Amps in the same way as ECM is? Would this be a good and fairly low-effort step towards balancing all racial e-war types?


I'm not sure if it would be better for SDA's to affect all ewar mods, or to have new modules like SDA's for each ewar type.... While making the SDA alter all EWAR would be simple, I'm not certain 10% boosts to each ewar type is appropriate...


This would yield more "Falcon with Turret Destablization Amplifiers" killmails, especially if they could give them all the same icon.

Those are always fun.
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#12 - 2012-08-30 21:20:43 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:
I dunno, having a bunch of formerly-useless mods become useful would really complicate fitting choices :3

I hadn't really thought about it, but really it's dumb as hell that ECM is the only ewar type that can be boosted through mods.

Its odd that ECM works completely differently to all the other e-war types, this is one way to move them a little closer together as well as buffing the e-war types other than ECM.

Originally I was going to post this as a much deeper change to bring all the e-war onto the same page by making all the Primary e-war types use a comparison of their "e-war strength" (new characteristic) vs the target's sensor strength to modify the strength of the e-war effect, but this way seems a little less radical.


How about this:

1. ECM works on logistics primarily. Effect on DPS/EWAR ships will be small.
2. Sensor dampening works mostly on EWAR.
3. TD works only on on DPS (obviously), missile or gun based.
Astroniomix
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-08-31 04:29:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Astroniomix
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
ECM breaking your locks -- OK
ECM keeping you from locking anything -- NOT OK.

If they changed ECM to "can't lock anything whilst jammed ... EXCEPT that bastard in the falcon who's jamming you" then it'd be a little better (note, multiple falcons jamming you means they're all valid ... otherwise 2x falcon end up working like it does right now).


That falls into the 'overnerf ECM into utter uselessness' clause I mentioned above.

Also, the 'nerf ECM' thread is somewhere else (everywhere else), but thanks for the bump.

I'll actually try to defend this idea for a bit, Falcons like to opperate well outside of the engagement range of the ships they are jamming, thus preventing the jammed ship from simply instablaping the falcon the moment they start getting jammed.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#14 - 2012-08-31 07:53:01 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:

I'll actually try to defend this idea for a bit, Falcons like to opperate well outside of the engagement range of the ships they are jamming, thus preventing the jammed ship from simply instablaping the falcon the moment they start getting jammed.


Inquiring minds want to know how you instablap something when you're jammed?
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#15 - 2012-08-31 07:57:57 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:

I'll actually try to defend this idea for a bit, Falcons like to opperate well outside of the engagement range of the ships they are jamming, thus preventing the jammed ship from simply instablaping the falcon the moment they start getting jammed.


Inquiring minds want to know how you instablap something when you're jammed?


Autoaggression when you have fifty sentry drones assisting you would do the trick.
Uris Vitgar
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-08-31 10:34:11 UTC
The only problem I see with this is, it might make TDs and dampeners even more attractive on hulls not bonused for them. It's bad enough that tracking disruptors are more likely to appear on a condor than on a curse, and damps more common on a hookbill than a lachesis. Target painting is different, but you could argue that speed and versatility are minmatar's true "ewar".