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Large ORE Barges/Exhumers
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CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#21 - 2012-08-30 15:13:34 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:


You also have hundreds of ships to choose from, we have 3 barges and 3 exhumers.


And a Noctis, and an Orca, and a Rorqal, and...aren't there other ORE ships beyond the barges?

Though, to be fair, if you really wanted some massive mining ship, just get Chribba's setup for the Veldatar and unleash the mining swarm of drones. Or there's also the Veldnaughts...


EVE was never meant to be a 'sit and mine' game. It's Pew-Pews in Space. Hence why there's a massive imbalance of Combat/Recon/Scout/Probe/Kaboom-yo ships to Rockmunchers.

I wouldn't complain too much. Last thing the mining community will need is a big ship that just siphons up belts and chews them in its hold. Then you'd complain the price of minerals is too low to sustain your lifestyle.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-08-30 15:18:25 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Dibblerette wrote:
Raiz Nhell wrote:
As a miner myself I think this is a bad idea...

I am ashamed to say that miners in general whined and whinged their way to the current changes instead of adapting and overcoming with the tools available.

The 6 (8 if you wanna include the Orca & the Rorqual) mining ships we have now are sufficiently different to promote the use of different classes and may even encourage some miners to branch out and move around a bit, instead of the usual "I want MAX yeild and MAX cargo, and MAX tank" argument.


quick! Someone take a picture!

But seriously, glad to see that at least some of you miners (sorry if you're not (but more sorry if you are!)) can see our side of things. I mean, when I fit up a pvp ship, I'm consciously choosing to focus on either gank or tank. You guys pretty much got the whole enchilada in one easy to use, harder to gank package.

EDIT: But obviously your gank hits the asteroids for tons of damage, instead of mining hull like I prefer.


You also have hundreds of ships to choose from, we have 3 barges and 3 exhumers.


Combat ship also have dozens of different role to be fullfilled while we really only have 3 currently. Come up with more role definition and maybe they will release ship for this role. Just make a bigger one makes no sense.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-08-30 15:35:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tor Gungnir
If you ask me, CCP didn't do things right with the Barge changes. Instead of making the existing Barges so much tougher of a nut to crack, they should've added Battleship-sized Barges/Exhumers.

Though I guess doing new models and stuff takes too much effort.

Or perhaps the Hulk should've been Battleship-sized from the get-go.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Veryez
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#24 - 2012-08-30 15:45:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Veryez
Alexa Coates wrote:

I'm not seeing a problem here. Even me, a miner, would like lower prices. I mean why the **** are tier 1 bs's still 80m even months after the stupid goons are done with their stupid ****.


The price increase had little to do with goons or hulkageddon, what you're seeing is the result of multiple nerfs to mission loot and the removal of drone alloys.
Hypercake Mix
#25 - 2012-08-30 16:08:41 UTC
Ugh. A number of you don't understand the point of the barge changes and a number of you don't understand mining.

The barge changes were a part of the Tier-icide effort, the ongoing changes to ships to make them all viable and worth flying.

When you can mine peacefully without interruption, the only thing that matters is your effective yield. If a large hull with a superior mining yield existed, miners would only undock in that.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-08-30 16:22:13 UTC
Hypercake Mix wrote:
Ugh. A number of you don't understand the point of the barge changes and a number of you don't understand mining.

The barge changes were a part of the Tier-icide effort, the ongoing changes to ships to make them all viable and worth flying.

When you can mine peacefully without interruption, the only thing that matters is your effective yield. If a large hull with a superior mining yield existed, miners would only undock in that.



I agree with the first part of your post, but not the second. With the introduction of Ore Holds, max yield is no longer the sole concern when picking your Barge/Exhumer.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-08-30 17:25:28 UTC
I have a solution to the "I wanna 8 laser mining ship!!!" issue. Fly a rokh.

Conversely petition CCP to go through with the logical steps of ORE cruisers and ORE battleships. An ORE battleship with say 20% less mining yield than a skiff but with, for example, 100mb/3 drone capacity, fairly comparable base HP values, 2 extra low slots and mid slots would make for an interesting setup.

I'm all for variety and having choices, but going by what I've read one of those choices will never be a ship that fits 4+ strip miners. If you want to fit more mining lasers than a hulk you're going to have to resort to standard turret-based lasers and "normal" ship hulls to get it don. I see no value in trying to discuss "super hulks" when an ORE rokh would be much more likely, and practical.
Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-08-30 17:50:42 UTC
If you want 8 mining lasers, there is the Mining Machariel of Hek.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-08-30 18:02:30 UTC
Huttan
Machs only have 7 turret slots..... making it even more of a lulz mining platform.

I will again agree that we don't need any bigger ships. That means lower mineral prices, and I'll make less mining. You see, I'm mining right now as I type this. I mine as I browse memebase and the rest of the internet, I had stopped mining for a long time, as shuttling cargo to a jetcan took too much work and this is supposed to be passive ISK. I also havent trained any ming skills in a while, and I don't want to train more.
What I like about the last patch, is I can go out in a cheap retreiver, and get nearly the equivalent of my old covetor's mining output
No more jet cans to fill, as I have the capacity of a jetcan in my retreiver.
Just retarget when I hear "The asteroid is depleted" and dock every 25 minutes to half hour... its a deserted system... and an hour of mining like this will pay for any losses incurred.
Basically, I can waste time on the internet with just interruptions at half hour intervals, and plex my account.

Larger mining barges would hurt my present easy as S**t mining income.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-08-30 18:07:36 UTC
Shereza wrote:
I have a solution to the "I wanna 8 laser mining ship!!!" issue. Fly a rokh.
.


Because Rohks can fit Barge/Exhumer laz0rs. *thumbsup*

And where did I say 8 laz0rs in the first place?

I just want bigger ship

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Din Chao
#31 - 2012-08-30 18:17:14 UTC
If all you want is different/bigger ships, but with the same yields/ore holds/tanks, I'm all for it.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-08-30 18:20:25 UTC
Din Chao wrote:
If all you want is different/bigger ships, but with the same yields/ore holds/tanks, I'm all for it.


Or alternatively make the ORE ships a bit bigger.

Perhaps make Exhumers a tad bit, perhaps 2/3's, bigger than their Barge counterpart.

Shame they're adding an ORE frigate this winter, not an ORE "battle"ship.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#33 - 2012-08-30 18:20:47 UTC
There's no need for larger mining vessels. More support vessels, maybe ...

Definitely the frigate (because of tiericide) and possibly a Cruiser/BC as well (for gas). BS is getting a little too silly though.

As for the suggestion of the "Jump Capable Orca". It's already here, goes by the name of "Rorqual".

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-08-30 18:21:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tor Gungnir
Velicitia wrote:
BS is getting a little too silly though.


Why exactly is it silly? Industrial stuff tend to get reaaaal big because bigger is usually more efficient.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-08-30 19:11:07 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
BS is getting a little too silly though.


Why exactly is it silly? Industrial stuff tend to get reaaaal big because bigger is usually more efficient.


Notice how the yield of the top yield solution didn't go up all that much when giving each ship a dedicated role? To me, that mean they don't want ship able to mine more than that. The only reason to make bigger ore old is for people to be afk longer and it support bots more than anything so my answer is "stop being lazy and dock once in a while". If you want other mining ship, define new role other than "sitting in an ice belt for more hours".
Velicitia
XS Tech
#36 - 2012-08-30 20:07:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
BS is getting a little too silly though.


Why exactly is it silly? Industrial stuff tend to get reaaaal big because bigger is usually more efficient.



Because they have the barges. It's easy to consider a frigate or cruiser as "small enough" to warrant being beneath the barges... but by the time you're getting into battle-ship sized hulls, it's better to have a completely specialised hull for that task (i.e. the barges).

in "RL" terms

Bobcat or the small Volvo excavator --> Frigate
Big excavator (e.g. what they use when building roads) --> Cruiser
Dragline (or other exceptionally large excavator used in mining) -->Barge/Exhumer

Yeah, there's a bit of a gap between "big excavator" and "dragline" ... but IRL, it makes sense for a small mining company to have 5-10 "big excavators" ... since only the most massive of mines can actually support the use of a dragline (or equivalent). (edit again) And even then, big mines would have say one or two draglines and then several other "smaller" excavators ...

If EVE had a more dynamic way to mine (edit - instead of most m3/minute to "hoover it all up" is the best), then it might make sense to have a larger than cruiser non-barge ship. (Ed.) Even then, "Battleship" might be oversized.

For example ... let's say you had to mine "veins" of ore from asteroids (just make it a puzzle game, where you had to follow a vein, because multiple miners on different rocks would make a human go crazy).

Miner (I,II, Named, Deep Core II) are "precise" (so small targeting reticles, and the laser in the game follows the reticle "easily")
Strip miner (I, II, Deep Core II) aren't precise (larger targeting reticle, and the laser is much more sluggish)

If you followed the vein perfectly, you would get 100% ore (so, say 60m3 + bonuses per minute for normal miner II). For every n% you deviated from "perfect", the ore was replaced with "gravel" (i.e. useless trash). If you get less than x% of the vein, then you get nothing but gravel.

So, what this does is makes more of a dynamic where the barges are hitting a belt first (fastest extraction of the biggest veins) ... and then being followed up by the frigs/cruisers to get the very last bits out of the rocks.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#37 - 2012-08-30 20:09:16 UTC
Only possible addition I can see is a mobile refinery. With the Rorq able to compress and the Orca's sizable non-ore hold, a mobile refinery would fill a niche the miners don't quite have yet, but is available in the form of stationary structures. It might never happen, but...it would be about the only thing the mining industry is truly missing.

Industrialists have:
Rockmunchers
-Tank
-Yield
-Hold

Booster/Fleet Support
-Hi-sec Small Cap
+Transport/Hangar/Refits
-Lo/Null Large Cap
+Transport/Hangar/Refits/Compression

Salvage and PI ops

Large-Scale Transport (Freighters)

Secure Low/Null Transport (Jump Freighters / Transport Ships)

General Haulers

Yeah, refinery or, on a stretch (very long stretch) mobile production facilities, perhaps for deeper WH exploration and exploitation would be about it. Your roles would all be met.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#38 - 2012-08-30 20:19:50 UTC
CorInaXeraL wrote:

Yeah, refinery or, on a stretch (very long stretch) mobile production facilities, perhaps for deeper WH exploration and exploitation would be about it. Your roles would all be met.


POS? Yeah, the refinery modules are ****, but they're somewhat "mobile" bases for manufacturing (in the sense they can be torn down and set up somewhere else).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#39 - 2012-08-30 20:33:29 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
CorInaXeraL wrote:

Yeah, refinery or, on a stretch (very long stretch) mobile production facilities, perhaps for deeper WH exploration and exploitation would be about it. Your roles would all be met.


POS? Yeah, the refinery modules are ****, but they're somewhat "mobile" bases for manufacturing (in the sense they can be torn down and set up somewhere else).


True, but if you look at potential expansion for wormhole-esque or exploration type ventures, having a ship that, like with the Rorq's compression abilities, can also refine on the fly without the need for setting up a POS, it would work.

But it's still a stretch. I doubt there's much else in the industrialist toolbelt that is truly needed.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2012-08-30 20:42:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tor Gungnir
CorInaXeraL wrote:


EVE was never meant to be a 'sit and mine' game. It's Pew-Pews in Space. Hence why there's a massive imbalance of Combat/Recon/Scout/Probe/Kaboom-yo ships to Rockmunchers.


Actually it was meant to be a "sit and mine" game when you play as a miner.

You can't blame miners for playing the game exactly how CCP designed it.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
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