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Character name change when buying a character
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Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#1 - 2012-08-29 19:05:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
Please keep in mind that selling your char to your second account or misrepresenting the origin of a char in any way is an offense which may result in a ban, and that CCP can track that easily.

The name buyer doesnt like isnt the only problem. If the char was a scammer, or corp thief/spy/awoxer or have history of ganking corp mates or a grievance with particular group or person, and has been blocked or set to negative standings, why should a buyer suffer consequences of that? Let us rename the chars we buy!

I'd be content if I had to pay an additional PLEX or maybe two for the service, but no more.

Commence trolling now, please.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#2 - 2012-08-29 20:26:56 UTC
It's not that you are out in left field so much as you are ignoring some very significant details.

You are not just buying someone's skills.

You are getting their entire history with it. If someone had their standings set a certain way, you inherit that.

Did they cheat someone who is now looking for them?

Are they part of a corporation?

Do they have good or bad standings?

Are they set up with jump clones in odd places?

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#3 - 2012-08-30 13:38:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
I've pondered about this, but it boils down that its wrong. CCP must address the issue.
See, can someone have the gripe with the pixels on the screen, or just with the person playing the character?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#4 - 2012-08-30 14:44:35 UTC
Nestara Aldent wrote:
I've pondered about this, but it boils down that its wrong. CCP must address the issue.
See, can someone have the gripe with the pixels on the screen, or just with the person playing the character?

Having a gripe, as you put it, is a perception issue.

Do they perceive the character as being responsible, or the player behind the keyboard. If they never know which player is behind the keyboard, then that leaves the character.

If we allowed wipes and resetting of names and histories, leaving only the skills with their points being sold, that would be a HUGE exploit.

Consider: Bob has a pilot character he went pirating with. His actions dropped his security level to -10.
Bob has two accounts, so he sells the character privately to his second account, wiping out the history.
Sec status now is 0, character has a new name, so all the watch lists for him are obsolete.

Would you try to set minimum ISK or plex payments for character transfers? Would you sell the reset function as a separate CCP item?

How, exactly, do you protect this type of transaction from being exploited, without making it so complicated noone can figure it out?

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-08-30 14:49:39 UTC
I'd like to see a name change possible, even if it's marked in the characters history, which would magically grow from an employment history to a character history.

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Corteztkiller
Trivium
#6 - 2012-08-30 17:23:12 UTC
While I do like the idea (because some of my purchased characters have horrendous names) I just don't think it feasible. It's too complicated to stop exploits. It would make it even more incredibly hard to stop spies.

I would challenge you to come back with a system that takes away the possibility of exploit. If you can think that up then I'm with you. Sadly I honestly don't believe this is possible so my alts are going to have crappy names for a long time to come.
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#7 - 2012-08-30 20:38:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Nestara Aldent wrote:
I've pondered about this, but it boils down that its wrong. CCP must address the issue.
See, can someone have the gripe with the pixels on the screen, or just with the person playing the character?

Having a gripe, as you put it, is a perception issue.

Do they perceive the character as being responsible, or the player behind the keyboard. If they never know which player is behind the keyboard, then that leaves the character.

If we allowed wipes and resetting of names and histories, leaving only the skills with their points being sold, that would be a HUGE exploit.

Consider: Bob has a pilot character he went pirating with. His actions dropped his security level to -10.
Bob has two accounts, so he sells the character privately to his second account, wiping out the history.
Sec status now is 0, character has a new name, so all the watch lists for him are obsolete.

Would you try to set minimum ISK or plex payments for character transfers? Would you sell the reset function as a separate CCP item?

How, exactly, do you protect this type of transaction from being exploited, without making it so complicated noone can figure it out?


It can be done, problem with spying in general is thats a very low-risk activity, yet rewards can be significant.

For example, if name change is allowed at char purchase it could still be used to mask a char's origin, for example, you sell a char to your real life buddy or corp mate out of the corp. That can be petitioned, but its hard to discover. But even without name change char sold like that can be used for spying again (you'll point out that char is bought and you're clean as the new owner).

Changing names of characters already in use I think is more dangerous, but even then doesn't mean we should be left with what we have to combat spies.

What character remname will give is that it will be harder to check character's origin, as I'll have to search forums for both new and old name, but even thats not a problem if:

Each character would be assigned an ID number, which will never change. Searching for a char's post on forums or people and places could be done with both name and ID number.

Charater buy and sell history would be public, and searchable in game. So if I buy or sell a character, it will be always visible that I bought it or sold it (but no other data related to my RL identity of course). That means both chars whom I bought or sold, not only if I were bought or sold and to whom.

With these two, even character rename of chars that arent sold would be completely free from exploit and characters previous owners known.

Espionage and counterespionage in Eve should become part of the game, and no more meta game.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#8 - 2012-08-30 21:20:51 UTC
Let me rephrase what i think you said, so we can confirm I am on the same page.

You seem to be coming from a side of corporate espionage and similar concerns. I can't say that any reliable means exists to confirm or deny any pilot of being a spy. You either trust them or you don't.

Would you have the flag that alerts pilots, and by proxy player set standings towards each other, use instead this character ID number?
I believe you mentioned this as a means to track characters beyond their given name.
This would cause a character to keep their history, and the name change would be purely cosmetic.
It would also mean that the character would be haunted by this history.

And what about security status? The player Bob I used in my example sold a character between accounts partly so he could strip off a negative security status.

Here is the core issue: any protection you put in for buyers of characters done in good faith and intention could also be used by players trying to go around security status and well deserved bad reputations.

I do not see a way to resolve this without CCP becoming psychic.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#9 - 2012-08-30 21:26:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Let me rephrase what i think you said, so we can confirm I am on the same page.

You seem to be coming from a side of corporate espionage and similar concerns. I can't say that any reliable means exists to confirm or deny any pilot of being a spy. You either trust them or you don't.

Would you have the flag that alerts pilots, and by proxy player set standings towards each other, use instead this character ID number?
I believe you mentioned this as a means to track characters beyond their given name.
This would cause a character to keep their history, and the name change would be purely cosmetic.
It would also mean that the character would be haunted by this history.

And what about security status? The player Bob I used in my example sold a character between accounts partly so he could strip off a negative security status.

Here is the core issue: any protection you put in for buyers of characters done in good faith and intention could also be used by players trying to go around security status and well deserved bad reputations.

I do not see a way to resolve this without CCP becoming psychic.


About flagging for standings etc. both new and old name could be used, and ID.

Character name change wouldnt resolve sec status, or even negative standings toward others (they can remain). so name change is cosmetic only. I can live with that.

Also each new owner would pay to CCP for name change, and be allowed to do it only once. If you'd like to rename char you own already, you could do it only once as well.

Most of the players I see bitching about names arent unhappy because of sec status or char history, but because of poorly chosen name.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-08-30 22:25:17 UTC
Nestara Aldent wrote:

Most of the players I see bitching about names arent unhappy because of sec status or char history, but because of poorly chosen name.


perhaps if one was less herp derp when choosing....

or they could build a new character. seriously a bought character with a terrible name should not get the same luxury afforded a new player. Its not a new character. Used characters come with baggage,

our character names are the only thing that is constant in this game. They should stay constant.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Bobo Cindekela
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-08-30 23:55:07 UTC
im fine with 1plex for name change, reguardless of character transfer

it baffles me that ccp'z havent gone for it yet, money never sleeps amirite

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