These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The Highsec quandry.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#81 - 2012-08-29 22:07:26 UTC
Sorlac wrote:
Since we are talking about forcing game play styles on others, I say we introduce the reciprocal also. Make it so that mining lasers can target players, and if a miner is able to zap an attacker with their lasers then that attacker becomes the miners slave for 5 days (120 hours) of game time. During that time the slave can only either mine or haul for their new master, and the time only counts down while they are actively working; no sitting afk in a station to work off the debt. Of course all ore mined in that time frame goes to the master. The slave's ship is also turned into an appropriate grade miner or hauling vessel (master's choice of course), with appropriate load-out.


It is only fair that if we are going to force miners to PvP then we should also force PvPers to mine.


Your pvp is already forced on others in the form of mineral and ship prices. Just shows how many of the utterly clueless dwell withint the npc corps. If you'd actually bothered to take any of the discussion in you might have read that.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#82 - 2012-08-29 22:11:46 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Sorlac wrote:
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Sorlac wrote:
It is only fair that if we are going to force miners to PvP then we should also force PvPers to mine.

You seem to think being held accountable equals PVP. Even though it only makes you a valid target, should someone want to even bother attacking you.

A better strip mine weapon is to force overheat the targets modules so you either A: make them kill you faster. Or B: burn out all their mods out so they cant do jack.



How exactly would you "hold someone accountable" in a way that doesn't involve PvP?

Also if someone has irked you enough that you feel they should be held "accountable" then you can easily do so while they are still in an NPC corp; as long as your willing to put a little work into your revenge that is.

Also my post wasn't about turning mining lasers into weapons, but about forcing PvPers into mining similar to how PvPers want to force miners to PvP (yes I know not all PvPers want soft targets, but then this change would not affect them anyways).


Previous NPC corp miners don't have to grab their guns when wardecked.
You can avoid them.
You can pay them off in some agreement.
You have a free ally to bring into war to do the shooting for you. (Plenty would love a free war, though they may not be as helpful as a payed group.)
You have more slots for more allies.

What else are you going to spend your NPC corp "earned" ore on? Effect my ship prices more?


They don't want options, they want safety and to be 'left alone to enjoy the game my way'

No wonder people gank NPC miners.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
ashley Eoner
#83 - 2012-08-29 22:32:17 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Virgil Travis wrote:
Sorlac wrote:
Since we are talking about forcing game play styles on others, I say we introduce the reciprocal also. Make it so that mining lasers can target players, and if a miner is able to zap an attacker with their lasers then that attacker becomes the miners slave for 5 days (120 hours) of game time. During that time the slave can only either mine or haul for their new master, and the time only counts down while they are actively working; no sitting afk in a station to work off the debt. Of course all ore mined in that time frame goes to the master. The slave's ship is also turned into an appropriate grade miner or hauling vessel (master's choice of course), with appropriate load-out.


It is only fair that if we are going to force miners to PvP then we should also force PvPers to mine.


Your pvp is already forced on others in the form of mineral and ship prices. Just shows how many of the utterly clueless dwell withint the npc corps. If you'd actually bothered to take any of the discussion in you might have read that.


So you're mad that your ships prices are cheap?

Earlier someone said something about needing to hold miners "accountable" and I can't figure out what they need to be held accountable for. The only thing I can figure is that you're all mad that mineral prices are low so your ships and modules are cheap. Apparently you want your pvp ships to cost more?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#84 - 2012-08-29 22:46:27 UTC
Virgil Travis wrote:

They don't want options, they want safety and to be 'left alone to enjoy the game my way'




Not that it really matters to me personally since I do play the game my way, but I am seeing what I just quoted being parroted by both sides of this stupid argument that is the EVE-O version of the 'Song that Never Ends''.

How about less telling others how they should play and more doing what you want within the constraints set out by CCP. Sandbox doesn't mean no rules, it means think for yourself.

Mr Epeen Cool
Sorlac
Cosmos Industrial
Cosmos Origins
#85 - 2012-08-29 22:56:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Sorlac
Forums ate my response and don't feel like retyping the whole thing again, so in summary what it boils down to is:

I'm not wholly against the idea of doing away with NPC corps, but I do feel if your going to force miners to grab their guns then they should be able to force you to grab some mining lasers.

In all actuality NPC corps are at best only a fraction of a bit safer than being in a 1 man corp; unless you are just running around mouthing off to everyone.

Also what is wrong with people wanting to enjoy the game their way? Isn't that the whole point behind this thread (as ones like it) is so that people like the OP can have soft targets for them to shoot at; which is what they seem to enjoy?
Frying Doom
#86 - 2012-08-29 22:56:58 UTC
Virgil Travis wrote:
They don't want options, they want safety and to be 'left alone to enjoy the game my way'

No wonder people gank NPC miners.

Sorry I haven't caught up, what are we talking about? sounds like null bearsSmile

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#87 - 2012-08-29 23:33:12 UTC
I don't know... the problem with highsec in my opinion is the draw to highsec. If your endgame is riches and power, you can achieve that with greater efficiency and virtually no risk in highsec. There no motive outside of epeen to leave highsec. I hear the alliance heads on the CSM saying that nullsec wars are about epeen.... well yah for them maybe. They forgot how their members live and what made the little guys come to nullsec though. If there are not greater rewards for low and nullsec for the individual, those areas of space will be inherently broken. The fix is obvious to anyone and has been posted many times before... but it's a big undertaking. I'm not sure CCP understands this yet, despite the great Incarna revolution. Listening and understanding are two different things... people need to understand that as long as the riches of EvE are in highsec, the game is broken. Str8 up yo.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#88 - 2012-08-29 23:50:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Gogela wrote:
I don't know... the problem with highsec in my opinion is the draw to highsec. If your endgame is riches and power, you can achieve that with greater efficiency and virtually no risk in highsec. There no motive outside of epeen to leave highsec. I hear the alliance heads on the CSM saying that nullsec wars are about epeen.... well yah for them maybe. They forgot how their members live and what made the little guys come to nullsec though. If there are not greater rewards for low and nullsec for the individual, those areas of space will be inherently broken. The fix is obvious to anyone and has been posted many times before... but it's a big undertaking. I'm not sure CCP understands this yet, despite the great Incarna revolution. Listening and understanding are two different things... people need to understand that as long as the riches of EvE are in highsec, the game is broken. Str8 up yo.


I'm a hisec dweller, this hasn't always been so, I've spent time in WHs and losec, never made it to null, kept getting ganked Big smile.

Hisec is like a blankie, it makes people feel safe even though it's not particularly so, hence the lack of situational awareness amongst some hisec dwellers and the multitude of whine threads about hisec PVP (from both sides of the argument). Everyone is a farmer of some description, mission runners farm NPC's, miners farm rocks, gankers farm players, null bears farm tears and moons, scammers farm stupidity and greed, etc, etc.

A safe hisec would defeat the whole ethos of Eve, it is a cold, dark and harsh universe, there is no place in this game for complete safety although noobs should be protected to a certain extent from the evil that prowls amongst us.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#89 - 2012-08-30 00:11:17 UTC
Bully Hedro wrote:
One more "Those guys should be forced to play the game like I do" thread.

-1


Yep posting in yet another force Hi Sec pilots into NULL SEC thread
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#90 - 2012-08-30 00:20:00 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Bully Hedro wrote:
One more "Those guys should be forced to play the game like I do" thread.

-1


Yep posting in yet another force Hi Sec pilots into NULL SEC thread

No. You stay in highsec. I don't care how safe you are there. I don't care where you go at all quite frankly. I just think there should be greater rewards as the risks go up. That's it.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#91 - 2012-08-30 00:24:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Hobb
Gogela wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Yep posting in yet another force Hi Sec pilots into NULL SEC thread

No. You stay in highsec. I don't care how safe you are there. I don't care where you go at all quite frankly. I just think there should be greater rewards as the risks go up. That's it.

Quoting because this is what constitutes "forcing high-sec pilots out of high-sec" to so many idiots.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Tesal
#92 - 2012-08-30 00:24:53 UTC
I bet the OP would love to goose step all over those newbs. That is what this thread is about.

Some NPC corps are a lot of fun. Maybe that's why people stay in them. It is a game, people should have fun playing. This idea that EvE should be a cold ruthless world is already out there, it doesn't need to be taken to an extreme like the OP wants.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#93 - 2012-08-30 00:38:02 UTC
Tesal wrote:
I bet the OP would love to goose step all over those newbs. That is what this thread is about.


A highly impractical stomping technique.
I rather interrupt the miner botters, the tengu mission botters, or 25 account miners now in macks or skiffs which only have ganking to worry about. There is no interruption. if ganking occurs. In 5 minutes, they are out there in another mack. There is too much wealth in high due to zero long term threats in NPC corps.
(Long term being everything longer than 15 minutes)
Takes longer to become space rich in high, yet there is little to no sink.
They just sit there. bloating the market.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#94 - 2012-08-30 00:40:05 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
They just sit there. bloating the market.

Dirty stinkin' carebears.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#95 - 2012-08-30 00:49:14 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
They just sit there. bloating the market.

Dirty stinkin' carebears.

Is there a word beyond that? This isn't just living in highsec and passive. Yet living on a pedestal on top of highsec.
Thrym Garsk
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2012-08-30 01:40:04 UTC
What is the deal with "veterans" in this game?

We can hop on here and "learn the ropes" by reading hundreds and hundreds of fanboi-ish posts about how EVE is a "play it your way, whatever way that happens to be" type game. On the same page, we get garbage like this that wants to stamp that very line of thinking right straight out.

Here's the deal. I don't want to be in a player run corporation right now. I don't want particularly want to get ganked in high sec(which is very much possible if you screw up, even as is). I don't want to get wardeced, and frankly I don't want to contribute to the play experience in any meaningful way until I am good and ready to do so. I don't want to be penalized for this opinion, and I want to "play it my way, whatver way that happens to be". The way the game is right now, that can mostly happen.


Beyond the whole "freedom of choice" argument, the logic that NPC corporations kill playability because alot of people playing in them deserves some thoughts all on its own. If alot of people are playing in them, it's because they want it that way. Fact is, I see maybe a half dozen gankers wandering around the Rens area at a given time, but I see hundreds of mission runners and miners. Why would be cause any kind of problem for these hundreds to placate the half dozen?


Want a real, in-game way to "make" people more interested in player corporations? Make gates more friendly(yeah, you can usually get through, but the times you can't are quite the turn off for an industrial or miner). Yes, yes, I know this is a "carebear" idea that gets tossed around alot, but in conjunction with the next, I think it would create the more target rich PvP environment the OP alludes to(that IS the real reason to drive folks out of the safety of NPC corp, right?).

Change manufacturing recipes to use more low/null sec materials, thus forcing miners into those areas. The miners will need escorts, the bounty hunters will find pirates hunting them, and so on and so forth. All of a sudden the gates become accessible so the industrialists can get to their resources in relative safety, but once through become part of the PvP infrastructure as a whole which obviously functions better in a player corp with helpful friends.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#97 - 2012-08-30 01:53:30 UTC
Thrym Garsk wrote:

Here's the deal. I don't want to be in a player run corporation right now. I don't want particularly want to get ganked in high sec(which is very much possible if you screw up, even as is). I don't want to get wardeced, and frankly I don't want to contribute to the play experience in any meaningful way until I am good and ready to do so.


That's fine. Great even. Its those though that use this cover to in fact "contribute" to the play experience without other players being allowed to "contribute" to their play experience in kind return. I don't want to kick anyone out of highsec. You still have concord protection. ... When not wardeced. And if players are really that casual. You have two other characters to play. As casuals are not playing to be space rich right?
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#98 - 2012-08-30 02:05:50 UTC
Yeah GL with that, obviously CCP isnt looking to kill miners anymore but get them to KEEP paying their subs/buying PLEXes.

Looks like they finally figured out miners' money spends like everyone else's

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#99 - 2012-08-30 02:14:04 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:

As if I wasn't clear enough:
DOWN WITH NPC CORPS.


Sometimes, I think that players like you are the reason that so many players drop out of EVE. I do not think you understand that newbies like me need an NPC corp. We also pay 15% tax rates or something like that, so you have no right to complain. Who cares if 5 carebears worth 50 billion ISK are in an NPC corp? It makes no difference to the game.

It's like saying, cars are bad for the environment, so lets just throw all cars off a cliff.

Without the CAS NPC corp, I probably would have left the game a long time ago. The whole point of an NPC corp is to let a player build up a solid base of ISK before they continue on to go into a bigger corp.

/end thread

Kneejerk much?
NPC corps purpose is to learn the basics of the game. Then release you like a haw.... ...a dove into the wild. I am not railing for their ultimate destruction. I ask for them to serve their purpose and then are dismissed. A month. A whole month should be plenty of time to get the basics of the game and find a few people. Specially with revamped new player experience.

For someone with a really crappy idea, you're pretty clueless.

Drop out of your crappy two man corp and notice were you go. The NPC corps aren't for new players to learn, it's for people who don't want to be in a player run corp.

You have tons of targets you can wardeck, not that I think your 2 man corp has the ability to wardeck many people, and something tells me it isn't, but they're there.

You're idea would kill EVE, period.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#100 - 2012-08-30 02:27:09 UTC
Hey Roll; wardec Goons. There plenty of targets for you

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.