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The Highsec quandry.
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Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#61 - 2012-08-29 18:56:57 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Christy D Floyd wrote:
formulating ideas on how to imporve the game.

tbh I'm having a tough time formulating ideas on how to imporve any game, much less EVE.

Hate, on the other hand, well, everyone should hate carebears. ******* carebears...


Carebears with teeth I'm fine with, it's the ones with no spine that think they should be left alone, they're the annoying ones.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#62 - 2012-08-29 19:13:12 UTC
Virgil Travis wrote:
Carebears with teeth I'm fine with, it's the ones with no spine that think they should be left alone, they're the annoying ones.

They're not actually carebears if they have teeth, they're just normal players.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Anslo
Scope Works
#63 - 2012-08-29 19:22:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
You know what I'd really like to see happen?

A Miner Strike.

A large majority of miners simply STOP mining, stop getting minerals, stop refining, just stop it. And not just for a day or a week, but one month, two months, hell even three. Let the mineral prices soar and see what happens.

Now THAT would be money well spent to see.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#64 - 2012-08-29 19:56:22 UTC
Anslo wrote:
A large majority of miners simply STOP mining, stop getting minerals, stop refining, just stop it. And not just for a day or a week, but one month, two months, hell even three. Let the mineral prices soar and see what happens.

Stop mining? What about their ISK/hr.? You, sir, are a loon.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Ginger Barbarella
#65 - 2012-08-29 19:57:43 UTC
Jesus, don't you guys ever get tired of reading your own crap?

Seriously, get a life already.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Anslo
Scope Works
#66 - 2012-08-29 20:00:03 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Anslo wrote:
A large majority of miners simply STOP mining, stop getting minerals, stop refining, just stop it. And not just for a day or a week, but one month, two months, hell even three. Let the mineral prices soar and see what happens.

Stop mining? What about their ISK/hr.? You, sir, are a loon.


It'd still be nice to see their culminated seething anger and rage form it's own artificer of an intergalactic sized **** YOU.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#67 - 2012-08-29 20:02:08 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Jesus, don't you guys ever get tired of reading your own crap?

Seriously, get a life already.

Ya know what I would take the time to explain how EVE IS a life but my Hot Pocket is ready, excuse me.
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#68 - 2012-08-29 20:10:13 UTC
Anslo wrote:
You know what I'd really like to see happen?

A Miner Strike.

A large majority of miners simply STOP mining, stop getting minerals, stop refining, just stop it. And not just for a day or a week, but one month, two months, hell even three. Let the mineral prices soar and see what happens.

Now THAT would be money well spent to see.


So would I. Because the price of mission loot would SKYROCKET.

And then the ninja's would come out and the tears would be legendary.
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#69 - 2012-08-29 20:30:39 UTC
No more NPC corps? lol yah right like that'll ever happen. Too many game mechanics would be impacted by that change.
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#70 - 2012-08-29 20:38:45 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Anslo wrote:
A large majority of miners simply STOP mining, stop getting minerals, stop refining, just stop it. And not just for a day or a week, but one month, two months, hell even three. Let the mineral prices soar and see what happens.

Stop mining? What about their ISK/hr.? You, sir, are a loon.


It'd still be nice to see their culminated seething anger and rage form it's own artificer of an intergalactic sized **** YOU.


Won't happen, we'll just mine the belts you aren't and either keep the minerals or sell them, probably for more than most miners since you're all on 'strike'.

By the way, I'd love to see you get even half of the miners in high sec to abide by any embargo. Good luck with that.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
ashley Eoner
#71 - 2012-08-29 20:40:35 UTC
Virgil Travis wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Anslo wrote:
A large majority of miners simply STOP mining, stop getting minerals, stop refining, just stop it. And not just for a day or a week, but one month, two months, hell even three. Let the mineral prices soar and see what happens.

Stop mining? What about their ISK/hr.? You, sir, are a loon.


It'd still be nice to see their culminated seething anger and rage form it's own artificer of an intergalactic sized **** YOU.


Won't happen, we'll just mine the belts you aren't and either keep the minerals or sell them, probably for more than most miners since you're all on 'strike'.

By the way, I'd love to see you get even half of the miners in high sec to abide by any embargo. Good luck with that.

Indeed and with the stockpiles that are out there I doubt the market would really feel it till at least a month or so has passed.
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#72 - 2012-08-29 20:44:54 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:

Or forgo the games and just kick people out of neutral NPC corps into FW corps after a month or two. NPC corps should not be a cloak of protection in an otherwise already safe zone. There are plenty of mechanics available to players to survive outside of NPC corps. It's a big world out there.


^this. I also feel that there is no need to push them into the FW corps, just make the NPC corps more like a National Guard for their faction. NPE could stay unaffected by allowing a 30 day period where they are can go where they like and not be targets (aside from people who don't mind GCC). Once they get past day 30, they are valid WTs for any members of the enemy factions Militia or NPC Corps.

I also think that FW missions/plexes should be restricted to full Militia members (i.e. Militia NPC corp or player corp), so if they want FW LP, they NEED to pvp.
Tiberius StarGazer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-08-29 20:57:23 UTC
I think people going get rid of this get rid of that are kinda going the wrong way about it.

The game needs a safe haven, it must do, for all the newbies finding their feet, the complexities oh veteran players with balanced ships are a scary prospect.

However, I do agree, that players do have to be encouraged to fly the newbie nest.

How do you do that? Not by getting rid of the NPC corps, no, what you do is, to encourage people to venture out is make the rewards greater the further away from high sec you go.

I can, as a miner and ore trader/refiner, make 100m plus ISK ever couple of days in high sec. But it's a lot of time.

But the profits are getting smaller. AFK miners are flooding ores and then minerals onto the markets, prices are sliding. Many high sec miners are now focusing on higher end denser ores, if it continues I can see more of us venturing to 0.5 or less space in search of more profit.

As high sec mining becomes the preserve of the frightened or unsupported miners, the more adventurous will search for profit in more hostile areas.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#74 - 2012-08-29 21:00:55 UTC
If a player is more than 30 days old and leaves a corp what happens to them in this scenario? They end up in FW? What race? What is they don't have the standings to be in the FW? What if they are a free trader and end up in an apposing races FW area? What are the intended plans to address corp hopping? What would you do to stop the hundreds of new corps made each day to avoid wardecs?

Sounds like a lot of coding work for very little outcome.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#75 - 2012-08-29 21:07:57 UTC
MadMuppet wrote:
If a player is more than 30 days old and leaves a corp what happens to them in this scenario? They end up in FW? What race? What is they don't have the standings to be in the FW? What if they are a free trader and end up in an apposing races FW area? What are the intended plans to address corp hopping? What would you do to stop the hundreds of new corps made each day to avoid wardecs?

Sounds like a lot of coding work for very little outcome.


The miners permit via being inside a player corp was the solution to allow people to rotate in and out of NPC corps, you just couldn't be untouchable industrialists.
Dumping people into FW was just another direction that needs better refinement.
Sorlac
Cosmos Industrial
Cosmos Origins
#76 - 2012-08-29 21:29:01 UTC
Since we are talking about forcing game play styles on others, I say we introduce the reciprocal also. Make it so that mining lasers can target players, and if a miner is able to zap an attacker with their lasers then that attacker becomes the miners slave for 5 days (120 hours) of game time. During that time the slave can only either mine or haul for their new master, and the time only counts down while they are actively working; no sitting afk in a station to work off the debt. Of course all ore mined in that time frame goes to the master. The slave's ship is also turned into an appropriate grade miner or hauling vessel (master's choice of course), with appropriate load-out.


It is only fair that if we are going to force miners to PvP then we should also force PvPers to mine.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#77 - 2012-08-29 21:31:37 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
So ganking has in some part received one more nail in its resplendent coffin.
So in review hulks are still easily killed yet for very little loss in yield everyone can move to more heavily tanked super cargo miners.

The problem: its harder to gank them in 8 seconds so they must be nerfed? No.
NPC CORPS.
The true problem is NPC corps. Safety nets for the wardeck uninclined. The only desire to truly leave them in highsec is if you mission run due to taxes. Why would the masses of miners want to leave this sanctuary?
Nothing. Ore cant be taxed as it is collected unlike bounties.

I would suggest the Empire Ore Permit issued in a joint venture from ORE and Concord due to the lack or resources from within the built up empires.
You can ONLY mine in highsec as a player corp for a small insignificant fee (included in your corporation registration so you wont notice it) to force you into a player corp. Any player corp. Just to be a valid target as a entrepreneur.

What would this cause?
War targets.
What would see more use?
Mercenaries.
What about new players?
A 30 day miner permit that is only useful for pilots under 30 days old. Much like the Cerebral Accelerator booster.

What if I try and mine while in a NPC corp?
Concord shows up and confiscates any miner highslots from your fit. (after a warning screen for an invalid target of course)

Haulers can still be protected in NPC corps though.
Not that ganking them was ever hard and could still happen to save on wardec cost. Yet we could always make ore illegal if not in a player corp. How about that?

Or forgo the games and just kick people out of neutral NPC corps into FW corps after a month or two. NPC corps should not be a cloak of protection in an otherwise already safe zone. There are plenty of mechanics available to players to survive outside of NPC corps. It's a big world out there.

As if I wasn't clear enough:
DOWN WITH NPC CORPS.
Time to expose people to the universe. It brings validity to everyone's actions.
Most would still never be bothered due to new wardec costs for small groups anyway but enough of the shielding. This can just be a small part of a whole slew of changes. Bring in clone changes and change other risk adverse breeding mechanics and people may actually get involved with the game at large and stop being scenery "look but don't touch" while they screw with the game at large with idiotic pretenses like "I mined it, its free".
And of course the bots.
edit: This was almost new again. seems a ton of **** was necroed recently.




You are just mad that you don't get to zip around in the station with a zamboni or hang out in the station's "80's bar". Cool


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#78 - 2012-08-29 21:33:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Roll Sizzle Beef
Sorlac wrote:
It is only fair that if we are going to force miners to PvP then we should also force PvPers to mine.

You seem to think being held accountable equals PVP. Even though it only makes you a valid target, should someone want to even bother attacking you.

A better strip mine weapon is to force overheat the targets modules so you either A: make them kill you faster. Or B: burn out all their mods out so they cant do jack.

Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

You are just mad that you don't get to zip around in the station with a zamboni or hang out in the station's "80's bar". Cool


My enforcer brings all the chicks to the sub floor basement level of my spaceship.
Sorlac
Cosmos Industrial
Cosmos Origins
#79 - 2012-08-29 21:47:28 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Sorlac wrote:
It is only fair that if we are going to force miners to PvP then we should also force PvPers to mine.

You seem to think being held accountable equals PVP. Even though it only makes you a valid target, should someone want to even bother attacking you.

A better strip mine weapon is to force overheat the targets modules so you either A: make them kill you faster. Or B: burn out all their mods out so they cant do jack.



How exactly would you "hold someone accountable" in a way that doesn't involve PvP?

Also if someone has irked you enough that you feel they should be held "accountable" then you can easily do so while they are still in an NPC corp; as long as your willing to put a little work into your revenge that is.

Also my post wasn't about turning mining lasers into weapons, but about forcing PvPers into mining similar to how PvPers want to force miners to PvP (yes I know not all PvPers want soft targets, but then this change would not affect them anyways).
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#80 - 2012-08-29 21:59:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Roll Sizzle Beef
Sorlac wrote:
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Sorlac wrote:
It is only fair that if we are going to force miners to PvP then we should also force PvPers to mine.

You seem to think being held accountable equals PVP. Even though it only makes you a valid target, should someone want to even bother attacking you.

A better strip mine weapon is to force overheat the targets modules so you either A: make them kill you faster. Or B: burn out all their mods out so they cant do jack.



How exactly would you "hold someone accountable" in a way that doesn't involve PvP?

Also if someone has irked you enough that you feel they should be held "accountable" then you can easily do so while they are still in an NPC corp; as long as your willing to put a little work into your revenge that is.

Also my post wasn't about turning mining lasers into weapons, but about forcing PvPers into mining similar to how PvPers want to force miners to PvP (yes I know not all PvPers want soft targets, but then this change would not affect them anyways).


Previous NPC corp miners don't have to grab their guns when wardecked.
You can avoid them.
You can pay them off in some agreement.
You have a free ally to bring into war to do the shooting for you. (Plenty would love a free war, though they may not be as helpful as a payed group.)
You have more slots for more allies.

What else are you going to spend your NPC corp "earned" ore on? Effect my ship prices more?