Player Features and Ideas Discussion

A bit inspired by this article : http://themittani.com/features/road-nerfdom-highsecs-carebear-future

I want to make a thread that focuses on how to identify and target issues which are making EVE TOO Safe. At the forefront are Crimewatch 2.0, Low Sec Sentry buffs, and POS 2.0, and how these are high profile candidates for making a Carebear EVE land which will destroy the Paradisiacal Distopia we all love. In other words, we are trying to stop CCP from flubbing another one.

The next tip of the hat will be the Crimewatch 2.0, which will show CCPs intention for EVEs non-Consensual PVP future. The reasoning is that the first version of Crimewatch 2.0 was so ANTI-non-consensual PVP in Empire that it was alarming. Under the guise of simplifying things, it became a quick spearhead to an EVE we wouldn't even recognize from yesterday. And is still dangerously close to being so. A system that completely changes the way we do EVERYTHING PVP in Empire space needs a serious review. And with the heavy criticism that has come from the community, CCP Greyscale will most likely not reveal much from this until the design process may be too far along to make serious changes.

Upcoming Threats to Non-Consensual PVP (to be updated) ::

v2.0 of Crimewatch::

Suspects (Can-flippers) will be flagged to EVERYONE for stealing from a can.

Suspects (Can-flippers) couldn't even shoot back to protect themselves. (v2.1 Changed to Suspects can shoot back at their aggressors.)

Logistics support in non-war situations would not be flagged for Suspects (meaning free logistics support)

Sentry Guns would escalate damage to kill Triage Carriers in 5 minutes, an absurd amount very quickly to break up "Static gate camps" in low sec, and will shoot Suspects and GCC (so if you steal from a can in low sec, you will now be shot by Sentry Guns).

PVP wrecks are "owned" by player who lost the ship, so taking your loot will flag you Suspect to everyone in EVE.

Looting that wreck in Low sec will now get you Sentry guns (Even if you weren't aggressor) by going Suspect

POS 2.0 ::

POS' will be more difficult to remove the "smaller" the POS holding is. Meaning that a single player with a single "home" structure could take 3-4 weeks to remove. So, a 100 players could setup a small holding in enemy space and force locals to spend 3-4 weeks of shooting at structures to remove. The ultimate troll and "Structure grind"

With all due respect to the dude, CCP Greyscale has consistently struck me as a Dev who has been pushing a "Safer EVE" agenda. Whether this is from higher management mandates that he's been stuck with, or just because he is good at getting there. The list of his ideas that have been presented over time that show this pattern is long, but essentially, if an idea is coming from CCP Greyscale it seems to be a push at a "safer" more convenient EVE. I'm not oppposed to a "Safer EVE" agenda to a degree, but a consistent pattern heading in that direction is what is prevailing. Although I love many of the ideas coming forth from the current production team, even the POS 2.0 ideas have a taste of "a bit too Safe" in that small player holdings in space will have weeks (a month?) long reinforcement timer to make sure people don't lose all their precious "Stuff". And consistently his ideas get a negative reaction from the community and have to be toned down for being so "safe and cuddly".

This thread is how to shift the direction of EVE in a better direction when it comes to these topics and to influence design decisions in a way that don't compromise the reality of EVE's harsh PVP with some of the goals of the new systems design.

Concord looks the other way for a few minutes if you steal from someone. I'm comfortable with this.


As far as I know, this was never the case. However, when they first talked about it, they talked about suspects losing sec status for returning fire. We made a lot of noise, and they reversed.


Unless something has changed, Greyscale backed off this some time ago. Last I heard, they'd agreed that neutral logis aiding in a fight should always go suspect.

I'm against the logi suspect flag entirely. I get that they were trying to make aggression timers simpler and easier to understand, but there is NO reason that I should be able to shoot a logi just because it provided support to a friend who was at war. While a lot of the new suspect system has a degree of logic to it, this particular bit is pure idiocy.


Hopefully that will change.

Wrecks in null should automatically go blue. Lowsec...I'm not sure.

Honestly just remove Concord and give people commiting ganks a negative Concord credit that will automaticly claim all bounty, agent income and contract/sell order income from the character until its balanced again.

Then flag them as a free for all target as long as they have a negative Credit with Concord.

The negative credit would be the worth of the destroyed ship multiplied with the secstatus.

Edit: This is more or less the system used in Lineage 2 and Lineage 2 is/was pretty much the best fantasy mmo ever for precisely this reason (the rest of the game was **** though).

These changes, if they go through will do two things for me:
1) I will have to pick my loot more carefully, to not waste 15 (or however long) minutes without a good take.
2) I will have less competition from those who can't stand more risk.

Otherwise, I won't care much.

Pirates need to form a bloody union..

We clearly aren't loud enough about stuff like this., nice article.

Well think about it like this,

Concord is the universes police force, and they are looking to protect not only the capsuleers but the helpless crew on each and every one of your ships. Every time you get blown up or blow something else up, a good amount of your crew die in the process. But that's just a way you can look at it if your into role playing.

REALISTICALLY, if you stray into a bad part of town and get beat up the police are not just going to say "Well, you shouldn't have went there." They are eventually going to get tired of all the complaints and do something about it. If you want your own rules... start your own country (sovereignty) and if your too unwilling to conform, well that's just too bad for you now is it?

Where is it written that lowsec is supposed to be "PVP light"? Lowsec is a dangerous area full of predators, but it still belongs to the empires, not the bandits. Just because "pirates" display territorial behaviours, doesn't mean they should just be given the whole territory.
Secondly, remember the gate gun idea was that the damage would scale up exponentially, so anyone could tank them for a minute or so. This is a buff to lowsec aggression as well as a nerf. It permits frigate aggression and promotes pounce camps, while penalizing dumb permatanking camps full of logis and carriers which shouldn't exist anyway

First off, people that put capitals on gates are your friend.... they make GREAT targets.... I'd much prefer large ship static gate camps with capitals over pouncing, fast locking inty gate camps!!!!!

Nerfing highsec would be bad, look its only 50M max per hour in L4 missions, and you need a pimp ship. With LP conversion its maybe more, but you need an indy char and be willing to play market games in Jita to sell stuff. Loot, reprocess, build profitable stuff and haul to Jita.

If you want to buff lowsec. make it lawless, like... Adding 'hidden' pirate agents (serp, guristas etc) to Empire stations there you can use which will give missions, but reward slightly less than NPC-null level.

Problem solved.

There isnt need to nerf highsec to ppl come to lowsec. You could expect in low only cloaky nullified Tengus then, not something easy to catch anyway. Real buff to lowsec involves buff to... lowsec.