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[Video] NEVER STOP - solo/duo pvp

Author
Kovorix
Matari Exodus
#41 - 2012-08-26 04:54:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kovorix
Kalterox wrote:
To be honest....most of the fights in this vid aren't even close to being competative...


Hey man, I appreciate the critical angle. I do disagree with you on a number of counts though.

First of all, I know the current outlook on the ASB issue makes this video significantly less interesting - I got most of these fights pretty early on before people were fully conscious of the module, and at the time the fits felt novel and cool and worth showing. I realize that's not the case now, though, so that's certainly valid point and I wish I had more foresight.

However, I would like to say that while xl-asb vagabond is indeed far superior to a buffer vagabond, it is in fact an extremely vulnerable and difficult ship to fly. One full load of boosters gives it ~60k ehp and 550dps, which puts it about on par with a regular hurricane in terms of those basic stats. Its sig and speed are thus its only advantage, and with 2 webs or too many neuts that's gone in an instant. I tried to show it fighting gangs because the wrong combination of 2 ships and it's quickly done for, making it basically worthless for real gang compositions. In other words, I seriously doubt it will see widespread use over typical hurricanes/drakes/tier 3s.

As for piloting it, I'm not sure if you have flown it before but I'd suggest you try it solo. It's a very unforgiving ship and managing manual piloting, dual prop, and the xl-asb at once is no easy task (for me at least). It's a complete blast to fly, but again, takes more piloting than your average ship. I hoped that got through in the footage but I understand that if you come in with the mindset of "xl-asb overpowered" it might be easy to overlook or discount. Of course, I have the biased viewpoint of having lost tons and tons of these to tiny piloting mistakes or an unfortunate +1.

As for mistakes, yes I make some but they are hardly fight-breaking, and if I didn't make mistakes I wouldn't have room to improve. :)
Kalterox
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-08-26 09:51:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalterox
Quote:
However, I would like to say that while xl-asb vagabond is indeed far superior to a buffer vagabond, it is in fact an extremely vulnerable and difficult ship to fly. One full load of boosters gives it ~60k ehp and 550dps, which puts it about on par with a regular hurricane in terms of those basic stats. Its sig and speed are thus its only advantage, and with 2 webs or too many neuts that's gone in an instant. I tried to show it fighting gangs because the wrong combination of 2 ships and it's quickly done for, making it basically worthless for real gang compositions. In other words, I seriously doubt it will see widespread use over typical hurricanes/drakes/tier 3s


Okay!

Well, you may be right that an ASB vaga is only on par with a regular hurricane.

But of course, you've been flying ASB fitted canes and vexors and other ships, and when that becomes standard for most hulls I think the ASB will be a drawback for solo pvp.

The ASB, as it stands, is basically a neut-proof repping device which for some reason is both easier to fit yet reps more than regular shield boosters, and only requires one slot to utilise (unlike a med armour/shield rep + cap booster combo). gg balancing. A lot of your kills in your recent videos have been testament to this.

So my criticism of your video isn't that you put a ASB on a vagabond, but that your last 2 videos (I enjoyed Everlasting II very much) basically feature you dominate cookie-cutter setups in a lot fights, in a variety of hulls that you fitted with ASB's. Which is fine I guess, but most people commenting on your vids don't seem to 'get' that many of the fights you won were based a much superior fit. As I said, a lot of the kills you feature are in the comfort zone in terms of running the rep. They're not even close. And you aren't sig-tanking for many of them either.

Quote:
I hoped that got through in the footage but I understand that if you come in with the mindset of "xl-asb overpowered" it might be easy to overlook or discount. Of course, I have the biased viewpoint of having lost tons and tons of these to tiny piloting mistakes or an unfortunate +1.


ASB's are overpowered. Your videos are a demonstration of that even more than they are of good fights or pvp skill.

I'll admit on the vaga that's a hull where it might not actually be overpowered, and you can be proud of your piloting.

But what about the Drake/Ferox fight?

You weren't exactly sig-tanking in that fight.

Ask yourself how many kills you'd have scored off that gang if they'd all been fitted like you were?

When ASB knowledge diseminates through the player base it's going to go from being a good thing for a handful of solo pvpers like it is right now, to being the bane of solo pvp, which makes killing ships take ages and gives even more time for their 8 buddies to jump 2 systems or whatever and arrive.

I disagree that few people will use it. It will become standard fit in the near future for every 2-8 man gang camping a gate or roaming without a scimitar. Of course it will never be popular in fleet vs fleet fights over a certain number, for the same reasons no rep fits are (alpha strike...).

Quote:
As for mistakes, yes I make some but they are hardly fight-breaking, and if I didn't make mistakes I wouldn't have room to improve. :)


I mentioned the mistakes just to put in perspective that while the piloting is excellent, it isn't so amazingly good that you could have scored the kills without making maximum use of a module which dominates small scale pvp, but which a lot of people still aren't fully clued up about. I regard this video in particular as more of a showcase of the ASB, than an example of amazing fights and piioting.
Laktos
Perkone
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-08-26 15:53:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Laktos
@ Kalterox.

I agree partly on one or two of your points. But I think you are talking up the power of a single-asb way more than it deserves.

Because of the 60 second reload, a single asb acts more like a shield extender than a shield booster. You get so much hp then it reloads and you die or flee. Only rarely do you survive long enough to reload and keep fighting, and most of the time that happens it is through skillful piloting as Kovorix demonstrates quite brilliantly in this vid.

It seems you came to this video late and have viewed it through the lens of an EVE where everyone and his mum uses asb's on everything. So it's understandable your impression of the video would be warped by boredom and frustration with the admittedly overpowered module. But I think every video should be judged based on the environment it was released in. And when this vid was released, hardly anyone used asb's, and nobody used them nearly as well as Kovorix did in this video. For that reason it was an astounding watch.

Btw, I've flown a decent number of single-asb ships since the mod was released and I can tell you it is bloody hard to do nearly as well as Kovorix did in this video with them. Part of the issue might be simply that he makes flying these ships look way easier than they actually are ^_^. I don't think they are the "I win" button you seem to think.

Dual-asb's on the other hand... that's a different story (horribly dull, overpowered things :) )

Latest PVP Video: Perseverance

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Kalterox
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-08-26 17:15:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalterox
I think I excessively downplayed the quality of the fights. I still think it's something of a "time and place" video, which he made at a perfect point when a powerful new fit came into play which people weren't wise to.
mitch3190
NZRAF
NZAU Alliance
#45 - 2012-08-27 08:39:25 UTC
Must say the editing has got very pro, good job man loved it =P
BBQ FTW
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#46 - 2012-08-29 02:58:44 UTC  |  Edited by: BBQ FTW
Quote:
Ask yourself how many kills you'd have scored off that gang if they'd all been fitted like you were?

If you truly ask this question for every pvp video you ever watch, I can't understand how you could ever enjoy any of them.

In many PvPPP situations, kills for the soloer often result due to error on part of the opponent(s), whether fitting or piloting-wise (see -- any propless maelstrom vs gatecamp video which involves HACs, recons, and BCs running directly into maelstrom's scram). While I can see how that could detract from the enjoyment of a video, I think that you're maintaining too high standards if you expect the other guy's fittings to be optimized to the same degree as the video maker's.
SeenButNotHeard
Perkone
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-09-02 20:56:39 UTC
Great vid - enjoyed it a lot and learned some good stuff.

Also, really nice to hear Rodrigo y Gabriela getting some love. Thought for a long time they would make a good soundtrack to an Eve vid. Thumbs up!
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