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FW: Separate the PVE farming from the Sov mechanic PLEASE.

Author
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
Lost Obsession
#21 - 2012-08-21 16:47:30 UTC
Cap contested level at 100%
No LP for vulnerable systems
Small LP reward for D-plexing (1/4th or 1/5th of offensive plexing)

The entire issue with the current system is that there's an incentive to keep a vulnerable system that way without flipping it and almost no incentive to decontest it. Fix that and maybe the amarrians will stop /wrist-ing all over this forum.

...but tbh i really have my doubts about that last bit.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#22 - 2012-08-21 17:55:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Bad Messenger wrote:
Cearain wrote:


....

Plexing is best done in a pve ship without engaging in pvp. That is the most efficient way to plex. So hiring "better" players will not make it more pvp it will make it more pve.


hey if people do not want to kill PVE ships why would they even try to kill PVP ships


Because you get more actual fights that way.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#23 - 2012-08-21 17:57:40 UTC
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:
Cap contested level at 100%
No LP for vulnerable systems
Small LP reward for D-plexing (1/4th or 1/5th of offensive plexing)

The entire issue with the current system is that there's an incentive to keep a vulnerable system that way without flipping it and almost no incentive to decontest it. Fix that and maybe the amarrians will stop /wrist-ing all over this forum.

...but tbh i really have my doubts about that last bit.


I'm not sure how rewarding people for plexing in systems that the enemy can't even dock would encourage pvp.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Smodab Ongalot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-08-21 19:25:12 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:


hey if people do not want to kill PVE ships why would they even try to kill PVP ships



You are missing the point entirely, so let's play a game.

I'm in okkamon running plexes in my dual rep incursis. I'm in the plex running it. How do you stop/kill me?
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#25 - 2012-08-21 19:38:36 UTC
Smodab Ongalot wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:


hey if people do not want to kill PVE ships why would they even try to kill PVP ships



You are missing the point entirely, so let's play a game.

I'm in okkamon running plexes in my dual rep incursis. I'm in the plex running it. How do you stop/kill me?


it is just about willing to do it.
Smodab Ongalot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-08-21 21:51:35 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Smodab Ongalot wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:


hey if people do not want to kill PVE ships why would they even try to kill PVP ships



You are missing the point entirely, so let's play a game.

I'm in okkamon running plexes in my dual rep incursis. I'm in the plex running it. How do you stop/kill me?


it is just about willing to do it.


So exactly how do you do it?

I'm in the plex in the aforementioned incursis. What is your next step in forcing me to PVP? Do you warp to the plex? Do you threaten my safety and insult my heritage in local? What do you do here?
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-08-24 23:13:20 UTC
remove pve completely from FW, it should be all about shooting each other ( basically rvb except mostly in low and some LP rewards for killing each other)
Xolve
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-08-25 09:19:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Xolve
Threads like this make me happy none of you work for CCP.

Plexing could easily be fixed by:

-Requiring ALL the rats to be killed
-Requiring the player to maintain within the beacon capture radius
-Ticking down contestation when a player leaves the capture radius, and reseting when he leaves
-Take time away from the time for every hostile militia member killed
-Add time to the timer for every friendly militia member killed
-Give some incentive for DPLEXing in non-stable systems
-Stop LP Rewards after a system is vulnerable
-Stop continuing an invisible contestaion counter past 105% (got to allow some buffer)


The sad reality is, that even if it is changed people will still farm as much as ever, just like everywhere else in the game. You cannot introduce a player to a solid way of making substantial gain and expect them to not want to do it. It doesn't matter how boring, tedious, difficult or challenging it is, players will find a way to work around the obstacles and farm away.

By making LP/PLEXing unreasonably hard would accomplish is to turn away even more new players from joining FW. Everyone needs a way to fund their PvP- if someone wants to orbit a button for 20 minutes, so be it. Should they be able to do it AFK? No. Should it require at least paying attention? Yes.

For years CCP has been pretty terrible at creating engaging PvE content, why this is a surprise to any of you, I will never understand.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#29 - 2012-08-25 12:21:17 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Threads like this make me happy none of you work for CCP.

Plexing could easily be fixed by:

-Requiring ALL the rats to be killed
-Requiring the player to maintain within the beacon capture radius
-Ticking down contestation when a player leaves the capture radius, and reseting when he leaves
-Take time away from the time for every hostile militia member killed
-Add time to the timer for every friendly militia member killed
-Give some incentive for DPLEXing in non-stable systems
-Stop LP Rewards after a system is vulnerable
-Stop continuing an invisible contestaion counter past 105% (got to allow some buffer)


The sad reality is, that even if it is changed people will still farm as much as ever, just like everywhere else in the game. .



The only reason this would still be farmed after these changes is because people would still be able to hide while plexing and because you would let people farm syste systems where the enemy can't even dock.

The only three changes that need to happen are:

1) some sort of timer count back if you warp out or leave the radius when a wt arrives
2) make it so people know when plexes are attacked so there is no more hiding
3) make it so you can run the bigger plexes in a pvp ship. No one even tries to do it anymore but if you do take a bc in you will find that probably would not want to start a pvp fight with the minmatar rats shooting at you.

Those three changes and the problem of farming is solved.

That said i think most of your other ideas are good and should be implemented too.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#30 - 2012-08-28 23:44:35 UTC
Smodab Ongalot wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
Smodab Ongalot wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:


hey if people do not want to kill PVE ships why would they even try to kill PVP ships



You are missing the point entirely, so let's play a game.

I'm in okkamon running plexes in my dual rep incursis. I'm in the plex running it. How do you stop/kill me?


it is just about willing to do it.


So exactly how do you do it?

I'm in the plex in the aforementioned incursis. What is your next step in forcing me to PVP? Do you warp to the plex? Do you threaten my safety and insult my heritage in local? What do you do here?


Put very small camps on both gates with a couple FW buddies. Chase you out of plex. Unless you bookmarked some safe spots (and how many plexes do that?) it won't be long at all until you are pinned down and dead.

Once your ship gets popped, we don't pod you. Just put a point and a web on the pod and go have a smoke while you showboat . . . somewhere. You and your plexes buddies will now avoid this system like the plague (and neighboring systems).

, you just defended like four strategic systems and Got some farmer tears in the process. And if you're lucky, complaints in militia chat will lead to a incoming PvP fleet in short order.

I am not an alt of Chribba.

Squatdog
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-08-29 03:41:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Squatdog
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
Smodab Ongalot wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
Smodab Ongalot wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:


hey if people do not want to kill PVE ships why would they even try to kill PVP ships



You are missing the point entirely, so let's play a game.

I'm in okkamon running plexes in my dual rep incursis. I'm in the plex running it. How do you stop/kill me?


it is just about willing to do it.


So exactly how do you do it?

I'm in the plex in the aforementioned incursis. What is your next step in forcing me to PVP? Do you warp to the plex? Do you threaten my safety and insult my heritage in local? What do you do here?


Put very small camps on both gates with a couple FW buddies. Chase you out of plex. Unless you bookmarked some safe spots (and how many plexes do that?) it won't be long at all until you are pinned down and dead.

Once your ship gets popped, we don't pod you. Just put a point and a web on the pod and go have a smoke while you showboat . . . somewhere. You and your plexes buddies will now avoid this system like the plague (and neighboring systems).


..

, you just defended like four strategic systems and Got some farmer tears in the process. And if you're lucky, complaints in militia chat will lead to a incoming PvP fleet in short order.



Says the month-old farming alt with a 0-4 record in unarmed, stabbed Rifters:

[url]http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Bizzaro+Stormy+MurphDog#losses[/url]



...and no, having half a dozen players running around and camping gates in the vain hope of catching a single farming alt isn't realistic or viable.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#32 - 2012-08-29 03:50:37 UTC
Smodab Ongalot wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
Smodab Ongalot wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:


hey if people do not want to kill PVE ships why would they even try to kill PVP ships



You are missing the point entirely, so let's play a game.

I'm in okkamon running plexes in my dual rep incursis. I'm in the plex running it. How do you stop/kill me?


it is just about willing to do it.


So exactly how do you do it?

I'm in the plex in the aforementioned incursis. What is your next step in forcing me to PVP? Do you warp to the plex? Do you threaten my safety and insult my heritage in local? What do you do here?


to stop you to take plexes in okkamon? Chase you away and defend plex your plexes so there is nothing to take :)
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
#33 - 2012-08-29 11:37:05 UTC
Herping yourDerp wrote:
remove pve completely from FW, it should be all about shooting each other ( basically rvb except mostly in low and some LP rewards for killing each other)


It is pve, because you let it become pve instead of pvp. You are occupied by how to farm more LP instead of how to defend systems. This means you just give up and my plexing pvp experience is reduced to "victory because opponent resigned".
Aracimia Wolfe
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#34 - 2012-08-29 13:06:48 UTC
I went out last night with a corp member, killed 1 plexxer, the rest ran.

So being the kind hearted soul I am, and realising my Thrasher wasn't dual sebo long pointed and they'd always get away I decided that I'd mess around with them, time after time they warped out and I'd happily jump systems scaring them.


Till I got the following comment:

"Why don't you go do some real pvp"

Sums up FW plexxing tbh.

People need to remember the W stands for Warfare

Kill it with Fire!

Sehanine
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-08-29 15:25:50 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:

A bunch of ******** things that even monkeys exposed to strong radiation/pharmaceutical testing for extended periods of time could have done better by collectively smearing their fecal matter on walls.


You sir, you are an idiot.

If you are not pants on head ********, get a little crazy, something, there is literally 0 chance of death while plexing; unless you jump into a massive resebo fleet and are unlucky or impatient.

1: Equip cloak /wcs
2: Mid-warp safe to first plex
3: Warp to 10km, Gate slide inbound if camped
4: Dscan is your friend. Even if you're in a cloaky hunter, I will see you on 1m km dscan when you decloak to take gate and I will be gone before you land
5: Warp to safe, cloak, wait.
6: Come through gate, find camp, wat do? Align/Cloak/Cycle Prop mod, float away from camp/gate, if you're decloaked, you're already aligned, warp, you'll probably make it out alive.
7: Warp to celestial at 70-100km near Complex from your midwarp safe, Dscan plex before warp to if hostiles in system.
8: In the case of a major plex with hostile in system, keep an asteroid belt as your selected item (preferably in a nest of asteroid belts [so your attacker cannot reasonably guess your actual destination]), if a recon decloaks, spam warp while their targeting systems reactivate(in the case where they were per-emptively camping a major before you arrived in system)

There is no way to effectively shut down a plex alt/plexer for an extended period of time if you do not awox them. If you were going to try to though, you would need: Fast tackle on every accel gate and beacon in every plex in the system. Non-regional gate exits on every gate in the system, and interceptors with scan res bonuses and 3 points that hit to 40km.

Even then, even if you had 9-12 pilots committed to stopping or halting the progress of the plexer, there are no guarantees you'll be successful. The can easily be in a merlin with 2 wcs, and a cloak; they cloak before you lock and idle away from the gate in a new system, or just warp off through your points..

Then, they're also free to just warp 3-5 systems away and do the same thing while you try to find them. Lets just say each faction has about 40 plexing alts running at any time (which is a low number, lets be honest), this means each side would need about 360 pilots willing to chase them to be able to stop any real progress, 23/7.. how long, if you could convince people to be that masochistic to even attempt this, do you think that would last?

Even doing the same thing yourself is more appealing than chasing the little bastards..
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
#36 - 2012-08-30 13:08:26 UTC
Sehanine wrote:
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:

A bunch of ******** things that even monkeys exposed to strong radiation/pharmaceutical testing for extended periods of time could have done better by collectively smearing their fecal matter on walls.


You sir, you are an idiot.

If you are not pants on head ********, get a little crazy, something, there is literally 0 chance of death while plexing; unless you jump into a massive resebo fleet and are unlucky or impatient.

1: Equip cloak /wcs
2: Mid-warp safe to first plex
3: Warp to 10km, Gate slide inbound if camped
4: Dscan is your friend. Even if you're in a cloaky hunter, I will see you on 1m km dscan when you decloak to take gate and I will be gone before you land
5: Warp to safe, cloak, wait.
6: Come through gate, find camp, wat do? Align/Cloak/Cycle Prop mod, float away from camp/gate, if you're decloaked, you're already aligned, warp, you'll probably make it out alive.
7: Warp to celestial at 70-100km near Complex from your midwarp safe, Dscan plex before warp to if hostiles in system.
8: In the case of a major plex with hostile in system, keep an asteroid belt as your selected item (preferably in a nest of asteroid belts [so your attacker cannot reasonably guess your actual destination]), if a recon decloaks, spam warp while their targeting systems reactivate(in the case where they were per-emptively camping a major before you arrived in system)

There is no way to effectively shut down a plex alt/plexer for an extended period of time if you do not awox them. If you were going to try to though, you would need: Fast tackle on every accel gate and beacon in every plex in the system. Non-regional gate exits on every gate in the system, and interceptors with scan res bonuses and 3 points that hit to 40km.

Even then, even if you had 9-12 pilots committed to stopping or halting the progress of the plexer, there are no guarantees you'll be successful. The can easily be in a merlin with 2 wcs, and a cloak; they cloak before you lock and idle away from the gate in a new system, or just warp off through your points..

Then, they're also free to just warp 3-5 systems away and do the same thing while you try to find them. Lets just say each faction has about 40 plexing alts running at any time (which is a low number, lets be honest), this means each side would need about 360 pilots willing to chase them to be able to stop any real progress, 23/7.. how long, if you could convince people to be that masochistic to even attempt this, do you think that would last?

Even doing the same thing yourself is more appealing than chasing the little bastards..


1. Find fweddit farmer in system
2. Send alts in Caldari militia to the plex
3. If an alt can lose Caldari standings, kill fweddit farmer right before plex closes. If not, use an alt in Gallente militia.

Cloak up, I gonna take all the plexes myself then. http://i.imgur.com/1RxGM.png

there is literally 0 chance of death while plexing


http://a7th.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14404548

unless you can't beat T1 frigs with your Dramiel Lol
ALCYONE
The Logs Show Nothing
#37 - 2012-08-30 22:57:49 UTC

Sometimes I wonder if the Devs even really play the game anymore or they are too busy focused on the next project.


Farming has gone from incursion to FW to ....... its all still pve.
IbanezLaney
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-09-01 00:38:16 UTC
Warp Bubbles around the plex buttons = Fixed.
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