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Nerfing Dominix?

Author
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#21 - 2012-08-24 17:01:31 UTC
- Ganking (suicide?): During Goons campaign against blue ice miners, they tried to pop my Hulk. With a battleship. It was - Dominix. Also they failed (I used rr), it was a nice try indeed, probably the best.
- Snipping: 500 DPS @ 100 km, plus decent tank - no way Mael can outperform that. Maybe you mean alpha-striking? Is it ever used outside blobs, since introduction of Tornado? Well... maybe, not sure.
- Kiting: versus NPC or in PVP? In PVE you cant get better kiter - just agro everything and run away, drones will do the job. In PVP I've never heard of kiting BS, but once again, might be just my fault.
- Brawler: cannot agree on Megatron, but yes for Rokh, it's uber - in fact I start thinking it's even better than Vindi, especially with those ASBs.
- Scorpion - the pro in EWAR, agree.
- Typhoon - a very good example how a versatile ship should be. The drone bay is not large at all, so it has to rely on turrets/launchers to be competitive. This mean only 3 free high slots, and at least a couple of low/med slots are busy with guns support modules. It brings phoon on a level lower than Domi, which is just fine - and I like that ship.

Alright, if you insist Domi is not OP - it's even better for me. I'll train my other toon for it as well, and will be flying them happily without fear of being nerfed anytime soon. Thanks for opinions, anyway!
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#22 - 2012-08-24 17:07:45 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Any perceived overpoweredness is countered by its ugliness.

Jeesh-louise.


This.

LOL, you dont get it - it's awesome! If you think it's not - look at Caldari...
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-08-24 17:13:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Astroniomix wrote:

Those spidertanking domis don't move too well. And good luck running a sleeper site with drones.


Sleepers only change target in the first minutes... if you make a meningfull dps ( more then a single drone) they will ignore the drones and will focus on you... then... it is just fun...

Dominix is a very versatile Battleship and you can fit it to match almos all roles (not expecializing)...



And About the main reason of the topic... Dont worry about this.... the

AttentionBS TIERCIDE IS COMMINGAttention
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#24 - 2012-08-24 17:27:33 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
- Ganking (suicide?): During Goons campaign against blue ice miners, they tried to pop my Hulk. With a battleship. It was - Dominix. Also they failed (I used rr), it was a nice try indeed, probably the best.
- Snipping: 500 DPS @ 100 km, plus decent tank - no way Mael can outperform that. Maybe you mean alpha-striking? Is it ever used outside blobs, since introduction of Tornado? Well... maybe, not sure.
- Kiting: versus NPC or in PVP? In PVE you cant get better kiter - just agro everything and run away, drones will do the job. In PVP I've never heard of kiting BS, but once again, might be just my fault.
- Brawler: cannot agree on Megatron, but yes for Rokh, it's uber - in fact I start thinking it's even better than Vindi, especially with those ASBs.
- Scorpion - the pro in EWAR, agree.
- Typhoon - a very good example how a versatile ship should be. The drone bay is not large at all, so it has to rely on turrets/launchers to be competitive. This mean only 3 free high slots, and at least a couple of low/med slots are busy with guns support modules. It brings phoon on a level lower than Domi, which is just fine - and I like that ship.

Alright, if you insist Domi is not OP - it's even better for me. I'll train my other toon for it as well, and will be flying them happily without fear of being nerfed anytime soon. Thanks for opinions, anyway!


sniping is about one shot kills (=alpha). besides that a maelstrom does over 400 DPS @ 150km with tremor and stays mobile, still tanking over 1000DPS with an xl asb.

wether you shoot the npcs yourself or let drones do the work for you does not matter for the ability to kite. i always would choose a tempest over an domi for kiting. smaller sig and 21m/s higher base speed. and yes bs can kite even in pvp.


additionally, even the fact, that we are keep arguing about it means there is ( at least some form of) balance.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#25 - 2012-08-24 17:51:02 UTC
If it was OP we'd use them all the time. But they have flaws that mean other BS are better.

Sorry, but you are wrong.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#26 - 2012-08-24 17:52:20 UTC
A Soporific wrote:
How should they nerf it? Are we talking about removing tank? Are we talking removing drone capaity/bandwidth? Are we talking about removing high slots or mid slots?

Well, that was supposed to be the matter of discussion. I've suggested to reduce its versatility a bit, making it more specialized on drones, via "inherent omnilink". I'd also reduce the number of turrets to, say, 3-4. It would prevent 1700 DPS monster fits. Maybe also reduce the drone bay, to induce some tension - which is not there at the moment. Targeting range is also a bit too large, imho.

In general, CCP want to set some specific roles to every ship. Intuitions says to me, that Dominix should be a sort of mini-carrier. So it should do the things that a carrier does - drones and heavy logistics. However, being one class lower than carrier, it should have far less range, both in RR and drones. While the former is true, the later is not that obvious. Guns should be rudimentary, as there are none on carriers. And of course, it should cost like mini-carrier, not like a couple of BCs.

Quote:
And About the main reason of the topic... Dont worry about this.... the
AttentionBS TIERCIDE IS COMMINGAttention

In fact, that is what I afraid!
I afraid the Domi would be nerfed down to the floor one day, when CCP suddenly realizes it's not fitting into one of their crazy schemes. Did you read the original devblog about that? The role mentioned there for Domi, if I remember right, was "cavalry"! Like hit and run, or something like that. It means it has to be mobile, paper-thin and otherwise totally ruined. So if we dont discuss how it could be morphed retaining its current role - such insane transmutation can happen.
Dennis Gregs
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-08-24 18:24:22 UTC
Dominix is in no way, shape or form overpowered. Not sure what you're smoking.
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#28 - 2012-08-24 19:04:13 UTC
Smart bombs.
You can counter drones just fine with them.

The Dominix is a good ship, but it has drawbacks. It gets no tracking bonus, no defensive bonus, and only 6 high slots. It also is Gallente, which needed a buff. Being a tier 1 Gallente BS, is has lower armor than most armor tankers. It also has a split weapon system, although that is acceptable with drones.

A lot of the things that made the ship a threat (ECM, SD, Nos, etc.) have been nerfed. The problem was not the ship, but the modules.

I just spoke to someone who used to pilot them a lot. He had a lot of kills and a lot of losses with that ship.


As for a ship that performs better... Drake/Cane/Maelstrom.

Better is versatility: Typhoon. It has all of the weapons that can change damage and don't use cap. Your Domi can't even fit a missile launcher. It matches utility slots (2 high vs. 2 mid) and can use 3 cap-drain mods, full drones with spares, and either 5 torps or 5 guns. You don't even know what it will hit you with. ECM? Drones and FoF. Add a buffer armor tank and it will laugh at your Domi's cap drain.
Blastil
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#29 - 2012-08-24 21:09:30 UTC
battleships are balanced. Each one has a relatively well defined role, and seems to preform admirably at it without being so ridiculous that it wtfpwns everything else.

Please do not suggest such things again.
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#30 - 2012-08-24 21:17:28 UTC
armor buffer typhoon is monstrous beast.
if you want to make it happen: ~ 100k ehp, full flight of ogres, torpedo and autocannon goodines.
or stick with one weapon (projectile or missile) and have at least 3 random utility modules.

to repeat me and the others: domi is an awesome ship but in no way overpowered and good as it is.
and even when it gets buffed with this whole tiericide initiative, still will have enough drawbacks.

Sinzor Aumer wrote:

It would prevent 1700 DPS monster fits


i guess some sort of heavy drone / void blaster combo?
sure looks good in evehq but any fast battlecruiser or battleship (tempest ;) ) will just kite you and your drones to death.
even cruiser like cynabal in the hands of a experienced pilot might do the job
without a good gang in your back raw dps is worth quite little in the regime of battleships.
A Soporific
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-08-24 23:00:50 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
A Soporific wrote:
How should they nerf it? Are we talking about removing tank? Are we talking removing drone capaity/bandwidth? Are we talking about removing high slots or mid slots?

Well, that was supposed to be the matter of discussion. I've suggested to reduce its versatility a bit, making it more specialized on drones, via "inherent omnilink". I'd also reduce the number of turrets to, say, 3-4. It would prevent 1700 DPS monster fits. Maybe also reduce the drone bay, to induce some tension - which is not there at the moment. Targeting range is also a bit too large, imho.

In general, CCP want to set some specific roles to every ship. Intuitions says to me, that Dominix should be a sort of mini-carrier. So it should do the things that a carrier does - drones and heavy logistics. However, being one class lower than carrier, it should have far less range, both in RR and drones. While the former is true, the later is not that obvious. Guns should be rudimentary, as there are none on carriers. And of course, it should cost like mini-carrier, not like a couple of BCs.


So, the point here is to cut off anything not pertaining to Drones, and to boost drones on the Dominix. I agree that there is a pretty big gap between the Drone subcapitals and the carrier, there are similar gaps in other chains especially in things like Logistics and Hauling. I understand the theorycrafting rationale, but before I argee with changes I want to be sure that this does work with the way the ship is used. The last thing we need to do is take a ship that is used and make it into a ship that isn't. We have precious few of those as is.


Ok, so if you can't use the Dominix for these other things, then what would be used instead?
Would a more carrier-like Dominix be unbalanced relative to other specialized battleships?
Is the gap in the progression a reason to gut a successful ship instead of an underutilized peer like the Hyperion or a new ship altogether?
Wouldn't a stepping stone between drone boats and carriers be better suited to a Tech II version of something than a Tech 1 Battleship that is supposedly the equivalent of the Scorpion or Armageddon?
How do you make a Dominix better than it currently is with drones without doing something unprecidented that doesn't scale?
Kitt JT
True North.
#32 - 2012-08-24 23:14:10 UTC
Lets for a second assume that CCP ISN'T going through the ship classes, and ballancing them all right now...

Don't be a *****. Shield tank the domi and go dual-damage mods like a ******* boss.
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