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Nerfing Dominix?

Author
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#1 - 2012-08-24 04:15:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinzor Aumer
Don't you think Dominix is OP?
First of all, it can bring versatile damage – it can hit to sniper distance, and a moment later it hunts fast frigates on low orbit. It’s DPS is also very high – about 500 @ 100 km optimal is easily achieved.
It can tank well with 7 low slots. And they can tank super well, if in spider.
While being mostly armor-tanked, it has a crap load of med slots. Sometimes they are used for omni-links, but that’s not mandatory. Capacitor, ECM, targeting, propulsion, ... too much versatility.
The most important, imo, is that in order to bring good enough DPS you don’t need high slots at all. It means 6 utility slots, have you seen something like that at any other subcap ship?! But they are not utility in fact, you can install guns and get just ridiculous DPS! Otherwise – neuts, spidertank, smarties, whatever you like.
And that is one of the cheapest battleships.

The verdict is clear – totally OP. I hate to say that, because I have one of my toons perfectly trained for it. But the truth is, it needs a big deal of balancing.
As a first step, I’d suggest “inherent omni-link”, that is to remove 1 med slot and introduce special ability for drone optimal and tracking (and reduce CPU appropriately). Any other ideas?
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#2 - 2012-08-24 04:19:36 UTC
Once those drones are dead (a high tank Domi sacrifices turrets usually) so is its DPS. That is why it is not OP.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-08-24 04:58:14 UTC
I really don't think the domi is OP but it is one of the better battleships in the game.
I think the armageddon will be buffed to me more like the domi soon.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-08-24 05:01:48 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Herping yourDerp wrote:
I really don't think the domi is OP but it is one of the better battleships in the game.
I think the armageddon will be buffed to me more like the domi soon.

The Armageddon can already field a full flight of heavy or sentry drones, in addition to its considerable DPS and damage projection second only to the Abaddon (as far as the Amarr battleships go). The only problem is that fielding full heavies or sentries sacrifices the ability to fit any other drones, which for solo PVE makes you vulnerable to frigates and close orbiting cruisers.

I don't think either need to be buffed or nerfed.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

MushroomMushroom
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-08-24 05:18:02 UTC
There are all types of counters to a domi, its heavy reliance on drones can be exploited to great effect by adversaries, and while a 7 slot tank is nice, it doesn't receive any bonuses, and can have cap issues if you try to use the utility mids/highs.

I don't know about empire space, but they seem extremely rare in 0.0, and aren't in the top 20 killers http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 which suggests to me that players don't think they are as overpowered as the op does.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-08-24 05:56:56 UTC
Any perceived overpoweredness is countered by its ugliness.

Jeesh-louise.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#7 - 2012-08-24 06:05:20 UTC
MushroomMushroom wrote:
There are all types of counters to a domi, its heavy reliance on drones can be exploited to great effect by adversaries, and while a 7 slot tank is nice, it doesn't receive any bonuses, and can have cap issues if you try to use the utility mids/highs.

I don't know about empire space, but they seem extremely rare in 0.0, and aren't in the top 20 killers http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 which suggests to me that players don't think they are as overpowered as the op does.

When it's about large fleet engagements, Domi is really pretty useless ships. Bombs (both launchable and smart) will put a strong stress on them. That's why it's so rare in 0.0, I think. And they will be useless, no matter buff or nerf them - just not their role.

But for smaller gangs it is the best BS, if we dont take pirate battleships into consideration. In PVE it rocks as well, again not that cool as Mach, but still. Once again, two T2-fitted Domies in spidertank can survive even C4 anomalies and burn sleepers with as much as 1000 DPS (combined) at 100 km.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-08-24 06:25:49 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
MushroomMushroom wrote:
There are all types of counters to a domi, its heavy reliance on drones can be exploited to great effect by adversaries, and while a 7 slot tank is nice, it doesn't receive any bonuses, and can have cap issues if you try to use the utility mids/highs.

I don't know about empire space, but they seem extremely rare in 0.0, and aren't in the top 20 killers http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 which suggests to me that players don't think they are as overpowered as the op does.

When it's about large fleet engagements, Domi is really pretty useless ships. Bombs (both launchable and smart) will put a strong stress on them. That's why it's so rare in 0.0, I think. And they will be useless, no matter buff or nerf them - just not their role.

But for smaller gangs it is the best BS, if we dont take pirate battleships into consideration. In PVE it rocks as well, again not that cool as Mach, but still. Once again, two T2-fitted Domies in spidertank can survive even C4 anomalies and burn sleepers with as much as 1000 DPS (combined) at 100 km.

Those spidertanking domis don't move too well. And good luck running a sleeper site with drones.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#9 - 2012-08-24 06:28:17 UTC
No. Each of its strengths is coupled with a weakness. If it were anywhere near to being OP, you'd see them everywhere. You don't because they aren't. They have a couple of things they excel at, and that just means it's a well-rounded ship.
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#10 - 2012-08-24 06:44:42 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:

But for smaller gangs it is the best BS, if we dont take pirate battleships into consideration. In PVE it rocks as well, again not that cool as Mach, but still. Once again, two T2-fitted Domies in spidertank can survive even C4 anomalies and burn sleepers with as much as 1000 DPS (combined) at 100 km.


Have you ever tried this at home or are you just theory-crafting? ;-)

Remove insurance.

Nan Quan
Magnifico Giganticus Industries
#11 - 2012-08-24 06:58:00 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
Don't you think Dominix is OP?
First of all, it can bring versatile damage – it can hit to sniper distance, and a moment later it hunts fast frigates on low orbit. It’s DPS is also very high – about 500 @ 100 km optimal is easily achieved.
It can tank well with 7 low slots. And they can tank super well, if in spider.
While being mostly armor-tanked, it has a crap load of med slots. Sometimes they are used for omni-links, but that’s not mandatory. Capacitor, ECM, targeting, propulsion, ... too much versatility.
The most important, imo, is that in order to bring good enough DPS you don’t need high slots at all. It means 6 utility slots, have you seen something like that at any other subcap ship?! But they are not utility in fact, you can install guns and get just ridiculous DPS! Otherwise – neuts, spidertank, smarties, whatever you like.
And that is one of the cheapest battleships.

The verdict is clear – totally OP. I hate to say that, because I have one of my toons perfectly trained for it. But the truth is, it needs a big deal of balancing.
As a first step, I’d suggest “inherent omni-link”, that is to remove 1 med slot and introduce special ability for drone optimal and tracking (and reduce CPU appropriately). Any other ideas?


You forget a few things thought...

Most of a domis DPS comes from drones... and drones are easily killed... when the drones are killed the domi turns from queen to beatch in a second. Now imagine if people could target each others turrets and launchers in that same way...

The common denominator for gallente ships is that they are a bit of do-it-alls... They do a little bit of this, the tradeoff is that they do nothing expertly. So while it do have enough mids to sprout a semi decent shield tank the shield tank is not great. And at the same time it have enough low slots to fit a decent armor tank... but yet again not great. Domis are used mostly in a kind of semi logistical duty fassion.

If domis were so OP as you say there are there would be humongous domi fleets all over... yet if you cometo just about any fleet I know in a domi the others will look at you as if you have sprouted a third eye or something... and they may actually tell you to go get another ship or go home...

I do love Domis at POS bashes thought... but the fit I use for that would probably make baby Jesus cry.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#12 - 2012-08-24 07:24:33 UTC
Dominix OP, lmao wtf. You must be trolling
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#13 - 2012-08-24 08:53:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinzor Aumer
Yes, I do run C4 sleeper sites with 1 Domi and 1 Typhoon in spidertank - phoon sux, domi rocks. Drones can be used against sleepers, learn to play.
And no, it's not a trolling. You cannot use Dominix in blob, and if you try - your FC will reasonably consider you're insane. Every other role - and it fits there great.

Alright, could you give me an example where another BS performs better? Of course, only T1 non-faction battleships take part in this contest.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#14 - 2012-08-24 09:01:26 UTC
he fact one ship is better for a specific purpose doesnt mean it is op, its the nature of the game including 4 races and hundreds of different ships.
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#15 - 2012-08-24 09:30:51 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
he fact one ship is better for a specific purpose doesnt mean it is op, its the nature of the game including 4 races and hundreds of different ships.

Sure, but the thing is there are too many "specific" purposes for the Domi. It's too versatile, that's the problem.

Once again, poke an example into me - where another BS performs better?
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#16 - 2012-08-24 09:59:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
dominix suck in pretty everything compared to other BS, apart of some niche tasks.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#17 - 2012-08-24 11:32:52 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
And no, it's not a trolling. You cannot use Dominix in blob, and if you try - your FC will reasonably consider you're insane. Every other role - and it fits there great.
…and thus the whole notion that it's overpowered falls apart.

Quote:
Alright, could you give me an example where another BS performs better?
Gank. Tank. Ewar… oh, and pretty much anything that requires range or movement. The one thing the Domi does well is “a bit of everything”.
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#18 - 2012-08-24 11:33:49 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
he fact one ship is better for a specific purpose doesnt mean it is op, its the nature of the game including 4 races and hundreds of different ships.

Sure, but the thing is there are too many "specific" purposes for the Domi. It's too versatile, that's the problem.

Once again, poke an example into me - where another BS performs better?


ok:

maelstrom/abbadon : way better sniper
tempest : better kiter
megatron: better brawler
typhoon: at least as versatile as the domi. big drone bay, lots of highs to put nasty stuff in.
scorpion : one click and all your high slots are worth nothing
rohk : tanks you and your drones to eternity. meanwhile blaster pounding in your face.
...

don't get me wrong, domi is a very good ship. but not as op as you think.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#19 - 2012-08-24 16:04:57 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Any perceived overpoweredness is countered by its ugliness.

Jeesh-louise.


This.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

A Soporific
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-08-24 16:10:08 UTC
Let's just assume that you're right and the Dominix is way overpowered.


How should they nerf it? Are we talking about removing tank? Are we talking removing drone capaity/bandwidth? Are we talking about removing high slots or mid slots?



What should the end result of that nerf be? Making a common, but not particularly popular, ship uncommon? Making room for currently unpopular ships? Making room for a larger number of new and more specialized ships? Ummm... Hitting Gallente players with a nerf bat for some reason?
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