These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Its finally happend: ccp killed amarr/minm fw fun
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ezra Tair
Doomheim
#241 - 2012-08-21 18:07:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Ezra Tair
If I were to agree with anything I've read in the thread so far, I'd agree with the problem is that the current systems invites the "me too" attitude that humans practice regularly. You see it in Null Sec as well. If you were to point out that the tier system has some flaws that greatly contribute to that, I'd agree as well.

So how about whoever talks to our FW rep press a fix.

How about:

-The plex system does not change. (orbit buttons, sizes, and spawning)
-LP is awarded only if the system is upgraded, and only until the LP in the 'hub' is gone. So if the system is not upgraded, it does nothing.
-Militia wide tier only affects LP earned though PvP kills. Higher it is, the more you get for PvP kills. (With a check to prevent abuse)
-The LP store is changed back to pre-Inferno values, so keeping a high militia wide tier is not about spiking it.
-The system 'level' bought with donating LP to the Hub effects the system as a fucntion of its level.
IE- at level zero nothing changes, level one plexes take longer to countdown, level two the opposing militia cannot use station services, at level 3 they cannot some more station services, at level 4 they cannot dock, and level 5 they cannot anchor new objects (like a pos or can).



The idea I've roughly drawn is that LP is generated anew though combat, moved between players via offensive plexing, and probably only spent on hubs in system where you want some strategic advantage and are willing to defend it. The negative effect for the other militia is a slow moving cumulative action that can offensively plexed down. It might hinder gross "LP whoring", and reward PvP activity, while making the sov'ish mechanic of plexes matter to those that car enough to do it.


How that sound. if its good, push for something like that then.


EDIT to add. I am goig to start a new thread, since this would be off-topic. I'll start with this and see what others add.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#242 - 2012-08-23 03:49:51 UTC
Amarr loosing FW is CCPs fault ....

Oookey whatever you say buddy ... Show me on the doll where the bad minmatar touched you ?
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#243 - 2012-08-23 06:22:34 UTC
No Amarr lost because we were never willing to plex, pretty much it really. Everyone saw what happens when both sides have plexers willing and able.

CCP changed FW so plexing matters, those that left are simply those that never wanted to plex in FW. Might be sad for some that happened, but eve changed so adapt or die. Speaking as someone in a corp that left, leaving was us adapting to the greater importance of a system we never liked and were unwilling to partake in.

The area is still awash with dessi gangs and frig gangs, so for those that like that sort of thing FW is very much a great place for you too be. If its not, then you should leave, its not for you anymore.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Perkin Warbeck
Higher Than Everest
#244 - 2012-08-23 06:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Perkin Warbeck
sYnc Vir wrote:
No Amarr lost because we were never willing to plex, pretty much it really. Everyone saw what happens when both sides have plexers willing and able.

CCP changed FW so plexing matters, those that left are simply those that never wanted to plex in FW. Might be sad for some that happened, but eve changed so adapt or die. Speaking as someone in a corp that left, leaving was us adapting to the greater importance of a system we never liked and were unwilling to partake in.

The area is still awash with dessi gangs and frig gangs, so for those that like that sort of thing FW is very much a great place for you too be. If its not, then you should leave, its not for you anymore.




Um sYnc???

I think you are forgetting something: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1595133#post1595133

Is the air thin on the moral high ground?
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#245 - 2012-08-23 08:10:35 UTC
Perkin Warbeck wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
No Amarr lost because we were never willing to plex, pretty much it really. Everyone saw what happens when both sides have plexers willing and able.

CCP changed FW so plexing matters, those that left are simply those that never wanted to plex in FW. Might be sad for some that happened, but eve changed so adapt or die. Speaking as someone in a corp that left, leaving was us adapting to the greater importance of a system we never liked and were unwilling to partake in.

The area is still awash with dessi gangs and frig gangs, so for those that like that sort of thing FW is very much a great place for you too be. If its not, then you should leave, its not for you anymore.




Um sYnc???

I think you are forgetting something: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1595133#post1595133

Is the air thin on the moral high ground?


I make Minnie LP from missions, what makes you think my lack of willing to plex changes when on the winning side? Its still a boring orbiting task.

And the air is clean, and the view is pretty.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Dan Carter Murray
#246 - 2012-08-23 09:55:55 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
Perkin Warbeck wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
No Amarr lost because we were never willing to plex, pretty much it really. Everyone saw what happens when both sides have plexers willing and able.

CCP changed FW so plexing matters, those that left are simply those that never wanted to plex in FW. Might be sad for some that happened, but eve changed so adapt or die. Speaking as someone in a corp that left, leaving was us adapting to the greater importance of a system we never liked and were unwilling to partake in.

The area is still awash with dessi gangs and frig gangs, so for those that like that sort of thing FW is very much a great place for you too be. If its not, then you should leave, its not for you anymore.




Um sYnc???

I think you are forgetting something: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1595133#post1595133

Is the air thin on the moral high ground?


I make Minnie LP from missions, what makes you think my lack of willing to plex changes when on the winning side? Its still a boring orbiting task.

And the air is clean, and the view is pretty.



The peanut gallery isn't moving to nullsec? More bs+ fights there.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#247 - 2012-08-23 16:39:06 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
Perkin Warbeck wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
No Amarr lost because we were never willing to plex, pretty much it really. Everyone saw what happens when both sides have plexers willing and able.

CCP changed FW so plexing matters, those that left are simply those that never wanted to plex in FW. Might be sad for some that happened, but eve changed so adapt or die. Speaking as someone in a corp that left, leaving was us adapting to the greater importance of a system we never liked and were unwilling to partake in.

The area is still awash with dessi gangs and frig gangs, so for those that like that sort of thing FW is very much a great place for you too be. If its not, then you should leave, its not for you anymore.




Um sYnc???

I think you are forgetting something: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1595133#post1595133

Is the air thin on the moral high ground?


I make Minnie LP from missions, what makes you think my lack of willing to plex changes when on the winning side? Its still a boring orbiting task.

And the air is clean, and the view is pretty.



The peanut gallery isn't moving to nullsec? More bs+ fights there.


Why would I move to Nullsec? For the awesome super fun game play? I wouldn't spin a timer too hold a system what makes you think I would enjoy the sov war in Null?

Just because we left FW doesn't mean we're heading to null. Nullsec is the single most boring space to live in eve. The players their are dumber then losec, blob more then losec, smack worse then losec and are generally poorer at pvp then losec. Also bubbles.

Im a losec guy, I fail too see why I would leave space where I can kill whomever I want, without having to worry about station lock outs, timers, pve ships or basically anything at all other then killing the person in front of me that's not blue. Losec is more fun then anywhere else in eve.

Put it this way, in Null, if your sad ass 12 man dessi guy came to my system, I would have to come do something about it. Now chasing that type of fleet is ****, now Im no longer in FW I can ignore it. Your gang in that form is nothing but a fly buzzing away doing unimportant things that do not matter to me at all. Where we are now, is a place we get to pick and choose are battles, I like that.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#248 - 2012-08-23 19:02:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Xolve
sYnc Vir wrote:
[i]No Amarr lost because we were never willing to plex, pretty much it really. Everyone saw what happens when both sides have plexers willing and able.


I blame Wolfsbrigade because Battleships and Triage Carriers don't fit into Plexes.


sYnc Vit wrote:
Just because we left FW doesn't mean we're heading to null. Nullsec is the single most boring space to live in eve. The players their are dumber then losec, blob more then losec, smack worse then losec and are generally poorer at pvp then losec. Also bubbles.


While my first post was completely sarcastic, this however isn't.

Complaining about bubbles? Really?

How to MWD?
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#249 - 2012-08-23 19:25:29 UTC
Xolve wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
[i]No Amarr lost because we were never willing to plex, pretty much it really. Everyone saw what happens when both sides have plexers willing and able.


I blame Wolfsbrigade because Battleships and Triage Carriers don't fit into Plexes.


sYnc Vit wrote:
Just because we left FW doesn't mean we're heading to null. Nullsec is the single most boring space to live in eve. The players their are dumber then losec, blob more then losec, smack worse then losec and are generally poorer at pvp then losec. Also bubbles.


While my first post was completely sarcastic, this however isn't.

Complaining about bubbles? Really?

How to MWD?


press mwd module with mouse
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#250 - 2012-08-23 19:29:51 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Complaining about bubbles? Really?

How to MWD?


Bubbles are the single reason I don't roam in nullsec. If you decide to take a suicide charge fight, you don't just pay for the thrasher, you generally for for it and the pod. I like lowsec specifically because of the lack of sov crap (of which I include bubbles, they are region control. No-one owns lowsec).

And yes, I am not a fan of station lockouts either in lowsec. The reason I went to FW long long ago instead of nullsec was precisely "hey, I don't have to worry about getting locked out of my stuff". Also Bubbles.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#251 - 2012-08-23 19:32:20 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Xolve wrote:
Complaining about bubbles? Really?

How to MWD?


Bubbles are the single reason I don't roam in nullsec. If you decide to take a suicide charge fight, you don't just pay for the thrasher, you generally for for it and the pod. I like lowsec specifically because of the lack of sov crap (of which I include bubbles, they are region control. No-one owns lowsec).

And yes, I am not a fan of station lockouts either in lowsec. The reason I went to FW long long ago instead of nullsec was precisely "hey, I don't have to worry about getting locked out of my stuff". Also Bubbles.


bubles are you friend not enemy.
Bezerk'ah Vulkan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#252 - 2012-08-23 19:34:27 UTC
Well aside from ALL the changes that must be done in FW to fix it...and there is plenty and lot of ideas out there...

...Amarr failure is on their own hands!

Yeah the matars took great advantage by taking almost all system before patch ( smart move ) but also did gallente, and we lost them all, and retake them, and lost them again...and so on.

You guys gave up...nulli came, did the work for their own interest, failed to reach tier5, but they did take a lot of systems. As soon as they left, the matars started to roll over the entire warzone again.

I know it's hard to fight for warzone control when you see your own militia using alts to plex for the opposite site, or simply having big amarr corps defecting to caldari ( cof cof...this isn't the 7th time i say this..cof cof...they left to find good fights...cof cof...but they went live in a backwater system...cof cof...where no one goes...cof cof )

So yeah, pvp isn't dead at least around here...join the "amarr refugee camp" in Ostingele, you will have to do your own bed there, cause you wont have slaves...here the slaves are free to plex...i mean to do whatever they want to!
Dan Carter Murray
#253 - 2012-08-23 20:05:09 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
Perkin Warbeck wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
No Amarr lost because we were never willing to plex, pretty much it really. Everyone saw what happens when both sides have plexers willing and able.

CCP changed FW so plexing matters, those that left are simply those that never wanted to plex in FW. Might be sad for some that happened, but eve changed so adapt or die. Speaking as someone in a corp that left, leaving was us adapting to the greater importance of a system we never liked and were unwilling to partake in.

The area is still awash with dessi gangs and frig gangs, so for those that like that sort of thing FW is very much a great place for you too be. If its not, then you should leave, its not for you anymore.




Um sYnc???

I think you are forgetting something: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1595133#post1595133

Is the air thin on the moral high ground?


I make Minnie LP from missions, what makes you think my lack of willing to plex changes when on the winning side? Its still a boring orbiting task.

And the air is clean, and the view is pretty.



The peanut gallery isn't moving to nullsec? More bs+ fights there.


Why would I move to Nullsec? For the awesome super fun game play? I wouldn't spin a timer too hold a system what makes you think I would enjoy the sov war in Null?

Just because we left FW doesn't mean we're heading to null. Nullsec is the single most boring space to live in eve. The players their are dumber then losec, blob more then losec, smack worse then losec and are generally poorer at pvp then losec. Also bubbles.

Im a losec guy, I fail too see why I would leave space where I can kill whomever I want, without having to worry about station lock outs, timers, pve ships or basically anything at all other then killing the person in front of me that's not blue. Losec is more fun then anywhere else in eve.

Put it this way, in Null, if your sad ass 12 man dessi guy came to my system, I would have to come do something about it. Now chasing that type of fleet is ****, now Im no longer in FW I can ignore it. Your gang in that form is nothing but a fly buzzing away doing unimportant things that do not matter to me at all. Where we are now, is a place we get to pick and choose are battles, I like that.



My bad. I keep forgetting that CCP removed npc null last patch.

/me shakes fist at CCP

Also, you guys like a challenge or no? If so, I heard some shiny ships like to sit in rancer.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#254 - 2012-08-23 20:31:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Bezerk'ah Vulkan wrote:
Well aside from ALL the changes that must be done in FW to fix it...and there is plenty and lot of ideas out there...

...Amarr failure is on their own hands!

Yeah the matars took great advantage by taking almost all system before patch ( smart move ) but also did gallente, and we lost them all, and retake them, and lost them again...and so on.

You guys gave up...nulli came, did the work for their own interest, failed to reach tier5, but they did take a lot of systems. As soon as they left, the matars started to roll over the entire warzone again.

I know it's hard to fight for warzone control when you see your own militia using alts to plex for the opposite site, or simply having big amarr corps defecting to caldari ( cof cof...this isn't the 7th time i say this..cof cof...they left to find good fights...cof cof...but they went live in a backwater system...cof cof...where no one goes...cof cof )

So yeah, pvp isn't dead at least around here...join the "amarr refugee camp" in Ostingele, you will have to do your own bed there, cause you wont have slaves...here the slaves are free to plex...i mean to do whatever they want to!



Amarr needs can do people like you. I know standings might be a problem because you are yet another minmatar who wants to give your misinformed opinion on the problems amarr face. But maybe you can get some of your alts orbitting buttons in metro for us!

You know don't just identify problems - like the amarr gave up. Be part of the solution.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Bezerk'ah Vulkan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#255 - 2012-08-23 20:44:31 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Bezerk'ah Vulkan wrote:
Well aside from ALL the changes that must be done in FW to fix it...and there is plenty and lot of ideas out there...

...Amarr failure is on their own hands!

Yeah the matars took great advantage by taking almost all system before patch ( smart move ) but also did gallente, and we lost them all, and retake them, and lost them again...and so on.

You guys gave up...nulli came, did the work for their own interest, failed to reach tier5, but they did take a lot of systems. As soon as they left, the matars started to roll over the entire warzone again.

I know it's hard to fight for warzone control when you see your own militia using alts to plex for the opposite site, or simply having big amarr corps defecting to caldari ( cof cof...this isn't the 7th time i say this..cof cof...they left to find good fights...cof cof...but they went live in a backwater system...cof cof...where no one goes...cof cof )

So yeah, pvp isn't dead at least around here...join the "amarr refugee camp" in Ostingele, you will have to do your own bed there, cause you wont have slaves...here the slaves are free to plex...i mean to do whatever they want to!



Amarr needs can do people like you. I know standings might be a problem because you are yet another minmatar who wants to give your misinformed opinion on the problems amarr face. But maybe you can get some of your alts orbitting buttons in metro for us!

You know don't just identify problems - like the amarr gave up. Be part of the solution.


It is not my problem...i am Gallente, the only thing i could do to help you guys out was when nulli was about to upgrade the WZC run there with my alt and plex for 2 afternoons...don´t think we have it easy out here....it's an inferno!
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#256 - 2012-08-23 21:23:45 UTC
Last time I tried amarr FW it was rife with irrational paranoia regarding intel of the enemy - not even friendly intel - but enemy intel.

Has this changed ?

If not, then not interested - but perhaps the recent changes have made it playable ?

.
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#257 - 2012-08-23 23:25:51 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:
Last time I tried amarr FW it was rife with irrational paranoia regarding intel of the enemy - not even friendly intel - but enemy intel.

Has this changed ?

If not, then not interested - but perhaps the recent changes have made it playable ?


If by changed you mean the Amarr once had a militia, then yes, it has.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#258 - 2012-08-24 01:25:26 UTC
Okay - so let's play this out. Minmatar conquers all of Amarr lowsec systems. Amarr resorts to guerilla warfare and hit and run raids. We see lots of Minmatar chasing few Amarr. And then what?

I'm having a great time, don't get me wrong. Fly to system X. Open a plex. Wait 5 minutes. PvP. I killed 14 pilots yesterday and 11 were solo kills. Yay me. P

However, if I were a dedicated PvPer on the Minmatar side I think I'd be a little sad at the lack of targets right now. The average number in Amarr militia chat yesterday was around 80. I saw that get down as low as 67 and it brushed 121 at one point in time too. Iron Oxide and LNA are well oiled machines. But how long can they keep their pilots happy when there's simply nothing to do? How long before those machines start to rust or suffer attrition? Yes, I'm sure someone will huff bluff about going to Caldari space or taking on Goons. (insert hysterical laughing here) - but is that really a satisfactory response? And will everyone want to do it?

The only real problem with the above is that it means that FW is not it's own system with checks and balances. In the eyes of CCP it is nothing more then a future proving ground for nullsec and wormhole pilots. One side loses and goes to to other things. The other side gets bored and follows. New pilots come in and the process repeats. I just think that FW deserves to be more then that.
Dan Carter Murray
#259 - 2012-08-24 02:17:59 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Okay - so let's play this out. Minmatar conquers all of Amarr lowsec systems. Amarr resorts to guerilla warfare and hit and run raids. We see lots of Minmatar chasing few Amarr. And then what?

I'm having a great time, don't get me wrong. Fly to system X. Open a plex. Wait 5 minutes. PvP. I killed 14 pilots yesterday and 11 were solo kills. Yay me. P

However, if I were a dedicated PvPer on the Minmatar side I think I'd be a little sad at the lack of targets right now. The average number in Amarr militia chat yesterday was around 80. I saw that get down as low as 67 and it brushed 121 at one point in time too. Iron Oxide and LNA are well oiled machines. But how long can they keep their pilots happy when there's simply nothing to do? How long before those machines start to rust or suffer attrition? Yes, I'm sure someone will huff bluff about going to Caldari space or taking on Goons. (insert hysterical laughing here) - but is that really a satisfactory response? And will everyone want to do it?

The only real problem with the above is that it means that FW is not it's own system with checks and balances. In the eyes of CCP it is nothing more then a future proving ground for nullsec and wormhole pilots. One side loses and goes to to other things. The other side gets bored and follows. New pilots come in and the process repeats. I just think that FW deserves to be more then that.



i like your posts, and i like this one too.

the only problem is that IO/LNA aren't going to get bored because they don't like combat unless they have , in their mind, a 100% chance of not losing any ships.

no one just came up with the phrase 'blobmatar' for no reason. that's just what the 2 big players in minmatar do...they just blob. when you can't blob back, you don't take the fight, then get called pussies for not just throwing away your ships.

they aren't going to get bored, sorry to disagree with you there. if they were getting bored they would have swapped sides. "takes standings noob" or "due to rp reasons" or "i don't want to shoot my friends" and other dipshit excuses. they should just own up to the fact that they like to win no matter what, even if that means never bringing a good fight to the table, and that's fine. It's just laughable when they throw every excuse in the book as to why to stay minmatar other than the actual fact that they don't like good fights.

I mean you swapped over zarnak, why did you swap over? probably because you were one of the few that actually liked to challenge yourself instead of being in the x*SFI, y*blackbird, z*whateverelse fleets that outnumber and outclass everyone.

almity or someone even mentioned that their pilots fly ruptures against SFI blobs because that's the only thing IO/LNA does consistently well at. outnumber the enemy with SFI/ECM and call everyone pussies for running.

if anyone in minmatar wants to swap to amarr I'm sure there are corps that will take you.

besides, if you've ever played any sort of competitive team sport in your life I'm sure you'd agree that some of the most fun is beating the crap out of your own friends.
http://i.imgur.com/o5ItV.png
http://i.imgur.com/daFJE.jpg

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#260 - 2012-08-24 02:52:05 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
I mean you swapped over zarnak, why did you swap over? probably because you were one of the few that actually liked to challenge yourself instead of being in the x*SFI, y*blackbird, z*whateverelse fleets that outnumber and outclass everyone.

almity or someone even mentioned that their pilots fly ruptures against SFI blobs because that's the only thing IO/LNA does consistently well at. outnumber the enemy with SFI/ECM and call everyone pussies for running.


We fought them, regardless as to what numbers we had- and even though we took heavy thrasher losses, we always came out ahead in overall damage done.

All it takes is a few brave recon pilots (or blackbirds and griffins) and a horde of those '**** fit thrashers' you guys keep talking about. We found a way around it, with 4m SP alts... crying blob and staying docked is just a cop out for 'I can't think of a logical way to harass my enemy'.