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faction cruisers to receive tiericide?
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Eckyy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-08-22 15:27:44 UTC
Forgive me if this has been covered, but will faction cruisers be receiving tiericide too? For instance, the fleet stabber is obviously in a different tier than the fleet scythe, separated by both cost and ability. Is this going to be addressed?
Deena Amaj
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-08-22 15:38:10 UTC
Now that you mention it, is Fleet Scythe popular?
Even without attention of tiericide, I think it is imperative that these get looked at.(all of course)

Tiericide is already causing major shifts in balance, so I guess those faction ships will get looked at.

confirthisposmed

I'm probably typing on a Tablet too, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them.
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#3 - 2012-08-22 23:50:59 UTC
There are no tiers in faction ships. Each has only one. Ok, the Navies have useless ships, but that is intentional. They are for collectors. Faction frigates were revamped not that long ago. I expect a nerf before a buff with those. Faction cruisers might be due for look at, but those have had work two (e.g. Navy Caracal used to have only 5 launchers). Even Navy BSs were buffed not all that long ago with a better drone bays and more CPU/PG.

Usually these ships get a single faction over-haul (e.g. pure laser Sansha vs. split missile/lasers; Guristas drone makeover). I expect the Navy Typhoon to become a missile boat in the not too distant future. That is a part of the second weapon system redo.

I few of these ships need tweaks, but not tiericide.
Spr09
Reign of Steel
Brave Collective
#4 - 2012-08-23 00:13:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Spr09
Obsidiana wrote:
There are no tiers in faction ships. Each has only one. Ok, the Navies have useless ships, but that is intentional. They are for collectors. Faction frigates were revamped not that long ago. I expect a nerf before a buff with those. Faction cruisers might be due for look at, but those have had work two (e.g. Navy Caracal used to have only 5 launchers). Even Navy BSs were buffed not all that long ago with a better drone bays and more CPU/PG.

Usually these ships get a single faction over-haul (e.g. pure laser Sansha vs. split missile/lasers; Guristas drone makeover). I expect the Navy Typhoon to become a missile boat in the not too distant future. That is a part of the second weapon system redo.

I few of these ships need tweaks, but not tiericide.


Imo the faction ships need buffing in a bad way. With the diagram showing that faction ships are supposed to be better than the tech 1 and tech 2 being for specialized uses, they should at least have better skill bonuses. They should have the same ship bonuses, but 7.5% per level instead of 5% so that they're still skill dependent.
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#5 - 2012-08-23 11:56:20 UTC
Faction ships are supposed to be better than T1 and not as good as T2. They came out in Exodus and predate faction items, which some are and are not better than T2. Deadspace are better and more rare. This is esp. true for navy factions, but also for pirate. The Navy Caracal should not be better than the Cerberus; the Gila should not be better than the Ishtar.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#6 - 2012-08-23 12:01:21 UTC
I may be mistaken but I thought it went Tech I < Navy Faction < Tech II < Pirate Faction
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#7 - 2012-08-23 13:18:29 UTC
At the current state Tier 1 Faction Cruisers are significantly worser than their Tier 2 counterparts. For example the Scythe Fleet Issue is worser in DPS dealing and tanking than the Stabber Fleet Issue because it has significantly less slots. The situation is similar for the other faction cruisers.

To solve this I propose that the mass of Tier 1 Faction Cruisers should be significantly lowered than their Tier 2 counterparts (currently they have significantly higher mass). This would make Tier 1 Faction Cruisers the faster and more mobile platforms while the Tier 2 Faction Cruisers remain as the DPS beasts they currently are.
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#8 - 2012-08-23 13:47:25 UTC
There are items that work like that. You can argue that happens with some of the ships too. Take a look at the Sasha ships. In no way are they better than any T2 ship. Even the Nightmare, which is similar to the Paladin, has fewer bonuses and lower resistances. Pirate faction ships typically can't be better than T2 because they have 3 bonuses vs. 4 bonuses plus roles.

The big thing to keep in mind is that pirate faction ships are easier to fly. T2 are better because they take more skills. The exception is when there is no equivalent, like the Bhaalgorn, but that a look at the Ashimmu (15%) and the Curse (20%) cap drain bonus. It is pretty clear which is better.

The Vindicator may seen fully better than the Kronos, but not for missions. The damage is the same if the Kronos uses faction ammo and the Vindicator uses regular (1.25 x 1.1 = 1.375). In a mission, the ammo economy makes that viable while giving utility high slots. The total DPS of the Vindicator with drones and navy ammo is higher, but that also comes without the defensive and tractor beam bonuses. The drone bay size is actually equal, so while the Vindicator has full bandwidth, it will not use it if it carries anything but a full set of heavy/sentry drones. One flight of medium drones and it matches the Kronos. I don't know if you saw ATX, but seeing the two pitted against each other is an interesting fight. And that is despite the fact that the Kronos is gimped for PvP. In terms of missions, the Kronos can match the Vindicators practical damage output while tanking more and looting.
Griffin Omanid
Knights of the Zodiac
#9 - 2012-08-23 14:07:06 UTC
Meditril wrote:
At the current state Tier 1 Faction Cruisers are significantly worser than their Tier 2 counterparts. For example the Scythe Fleet Issue is worser in DPS dealing and tanking than the Stabber Fleet Issue because it has significantly less slots. The situation is similar for the other faction cruisers.

To solve this I propose that the mass of Tier 1 Faction Cruisers should be significantly lowered than their Tier 2 counterparts (currently they have significantly higher mass). This would make Tier 1 Faction Cruisers the faster and more mobile platforms while the Tier 2 Faction Cruisers remain as the DPS beasts they currently are.


The Amarr and Galente faction cruisers differ each other in a relativ good way. Omen got more Dps while the Aguror got more EHP and the Vexor is more a drone ship while the Exequror is more a blaster ship. I hope they rebalance also the other ships the same way.

But for as for moduls i would say that T2 ships normaly got the best price-earning ratio, faction is normally just a little bit better but a lot more expensive. And by ships i would also say that a specialised T2-ship also may exceed a pirate faction ship in it specific role. F.e. a Curse may have the same or less dps then a Ashimmu, but is stronger in Ewar and so maybe more effectiv, or i would say most HAC´s are more effective then any Faction cruisers, when they only have to deal damage.

Proposal T2 BS Class Juggernaut