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Freedom of information request
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Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-08-22 17:31:44 UTC
Alright alright it's British legislation, but I still want an answer.

In the 14 days following miner update how many medium cargohold optimization were trashed?
A value for tech 1
And for tech 2

Also what value of isk was destroyed as a result of this? (Taking the average market sell order price of the two rigs over that time period?)

Was this considered an acceptable loss or viewed more as a function to reduce inflation?
Was this even considered?

Has the rate of inflation been influenced as much as expected/intended?

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-08-22 17:48:24 UTC
The rigs still exist and they still work. Not sure what the problem is.
Did titan and super pilots get reimbursed when their ships were nerfed? No.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-08-22 17:51:31 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
The rigs still exist and they still work. Not sure what the problem is.
Did titan and super pilots get reimbursed when their ships were nerfed? No.

I didn't ask either of those questions.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#4 - 2012-08-22 18:08:40 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Alright alright it's British legislation, but I still want an answer.

In the 14 days following miner update how many medium cargohold optimization were trashed?
A value for tech 1
And for tech 2

Also what value of isk was destroyed as a result of this? (Taking the average market sell order price of the two rigs over that time period?)

Was this considered an acceptable loss or viewed more as a function to reduce inflation?
Was this even considered?

Has the rate of inflation been influenced as much as expected/intended?


FOIA is actually very common legislation. It applies to governments though, so using the term here is a bit of a misnomer.

Anyhow, no ISK was destroyed. None. Not a single bit. And as such, the overall monetary supply is completely unaffected, which means that there is no effect on inflation. So I wouldn't expect any and I wouldn't expect CCP to expect any.

What, if any, effect will the destruction of rigs have? Well, the rigs will be replaced with something more appropriate. That will drive up the prices of new rigs a touch. Demand will go slightly down on cargohold optimization rigs -- though I expect that effect is pretty minimal.

Anyhow, no one is forcing you to trash your rigs. They still work as advertised, it's just that the ships they are on now function slightly differently. No one got reimbursed when polycarbons were nerfed into the ground, and that actually did have an effect on the rig itself.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-08-22 18:18:27 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:

FOIA is actually very common legislation. It applies to governments though, so using the term here is a bit of a misnomer.

Anyhow, no ISK was destroyed. None. Not a single bit. And as such, the overall monetary supply is completely unaffected, which means that there is no effect on inflation. So I wouldn't expect any and I wouldn't expect CCP to expect any.

What, if any, effect will the destruction of rigs have? Well, the rigs will be replaced with something more appropriate. That will drive up the prices of new rigs a touch. Demand will go slightly down on cargohold optimization rigs -- though I expect that effect is pretty minimal.

Anyhow, no one is forcing you to trash your rigs. They still work as advertised, it's just that the ships they are on now function slightly differently. No one got reimbursed when polycarbons were nerfed into the ground, and that actually did have an effect on the rig itself.

Well it is a forum after all. Not the most official of routes eh? And you know what; I never even realised. There's no NPC interaction on the rigs front so the isk to buy and sell would simply have gone between players.

Still, it would be interesting to know how many were destroyed and at what approximate market value.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Chris Slayter
Perdition
#6 - 2012-08-22 20:29:47 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:

Still, it would be interesting to know how many were destroyed and at what approximate market value.


Well... it's simple: Basically every miner who

a) is not too lazy or poor to switch rigs,
b) is aware of cargo rigs not having any impact on oreholds,
c) is not a bot,
d) does not need cargo rigs to carry more crystals (there might be some out there)

got rid of his/her cargorigs.

Why would such data be of any interest? It would just prove that (hopefully) most of the miners adapted to a change made by the Devs. My guess is that you somehow want CCP to give some official data on this just to demand some kind of compensation for it as soon as they release said information.

Also:

Zhilia Mann wrote:

Anyhow, no one is forcing you to trash your rigs. They still work as advertised, it's just that the ships they are on now function slightly differently. No one got reimbursed when polycarbons were nerfed into the ground, and that actually did have an effect on the rig itself.
Ginger Barbarella
#7 - 2012-08-22 20:44:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ginger Barbarella
CCP has no FOIA, so...

*insert tin foil hat corporate evilness here*

Edit: On a side note, I destroyed all of mine (T1) on all retrievers & macks, but left one on each of the Hulks. why? why not...

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Rengerel en Distel
#8 - 2012-08-22 20:51:50 UTC
The logs show nothing.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-08-22 21:02:10 UTC
Chris Slayter wrote:
Moonlit Raid wrote:

Still, it would be interesting to know how many were destroyed and at what approximate market value.


Well... it's simple: Basically every miner who

a) is not too lazy or poor to switch rigs,
b) is aware of cargo rigs not having any impact on oreholds,
c) is not a bot,
d) does not need cargo rigs to carry more crystals (there might be some out there)

got rid of his/her cargorigs.

Why would such data be of any interest? It would just prove that (hopefully) most of the miners adapted to a change made by the Devs. My guess is that you somehow want CCP to give some official data on this just to demand some kind of compensation for it as soon as they release said information.

Also:

Zhilia Mann wrote:

Anyhow, no one is forcing you to trash your rigs. They still work as advertised, it's just that the ships they are on now function slightly differently. No one got reimbursed when polycarbons were nerfed into the ground, and that actually did have an effect on the rig itself.

You're making an assumption there.

You touched on something else there too. I wonder how many hours (cumulative) it is going to take for bot miners to adjust their scripts.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Lili Lu
#10 - 2012-08-22 21:32:04 UTC
I don't understand the complaints on rigs. Medium tech I cargo rigs are nbd production or isk wise. If they affect your budget that much you've got other problems (like being dirt poor in this game).

Now if you had fit medium tech II cargo rigs I have more sympathy. However, anything you do in this game (and any game ftm) is subject the game changing. So if that tech II rig not longer helps you the way it used to oh well. You never got a guarantee from CCP that your ship would stay forever the same and your rig would retain forever the same utility.

Either trash the rig(s) and replace them, or don't.

edit - FOIA applies to governments etc. etc.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#11 - 2012-08-22 23:40:15 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:

Anyhow, no one is forcing you to trash your rigs. They still work as advertised, it's just that the ships they are on now function slightly differently. No one got reimbursed when polycarbons were nerfed into the ground, and that actually did have an effect on the rig itself.


o/\o

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-08-23 07:12:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Moonlit Raid
Are you people thick or something. I ask for some global stats and people assume I want reimbursing for items CCP wouldn't re-imburse. Funnily enough my hulks were sold about a week before the patch. At profit to the original price I'd paid too. Sisi is well worth looking at in this regard. Also, I'd be curious to know what % of extra ore has been mined per day since the patch.

Oh, no wait, what I really meant to say there is there should be more belts in high sec Roll

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-08-23 11:59:38 UTC
You actually believe CCP will show you these statistics...?

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#14 - 2012-08-23 12:22:43 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
You actually believe CCP will show you these statistics...?


It might come out in the next quarterly economic report, there may have been a change in the value for those rigs and supply stayed close to same and demand went down? etc etc
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-08-23 16:56:27 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
You actually believe CCP will show you these statistics...?

Why wouldn't they? Hardly useful market data.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#16 - 2012-08-23 16:57:12 UTC
contract me all your isk and items, and get the **** out

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-08-23 17:26:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Moonlit Raid
Denidil wrote:
contract me all your isk and items, and get the **** out

What do you want five thousand isk, an Impairor and 1 tritanium for?

Edit: Contract created. Please, let me know if you require any further assistance for being poor.

Hangeeeeer

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#18 - 2012-08-23 18:15:41 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Also, I'd be curious to know what % of extra ore has been mined per day since the patch.


You can potentially derive this by looking at the volume of minerals being bought and sold. I'm sure there's also a way to derive it from how much the bucket price has dropped.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.