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The Hel supercarrier and Nidhoggur carrier need some attention

Author
Nate Gordo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-07-11 15:19:40 UTC
Partly to getting it bumping again, but these ships really need some attention, the supercarrier bonus for teh hel needs to have some relevance like the other ships, or it just becomes a overgrown logistic ship, with out the benefit of triage.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#22 - 2012-07-11 19:00:32 UTC
Nate Gordo wrote:
Partly to getting it bumping again, but these ships really need some attention, the supercarrier bonus for teh hel needs to have some relevance like the other ships, or it just becomes a overgrown logistic ship, with out the benefit of triage.

Plus waaaan.

The nid at least sort of comes in useful at times, the hel however is an absolute monstrosity.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#23 - 2012-07-11 19:01:18 UTC
*Also mixed guns on the naglfar.

Rabble rabble rabble.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Nate Gordo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-07-25 15:29:17 UTC
CCP please let the HEL be a useful supercarrier make it like the others, I know its made of rust but it should still be able to match up to the members in its class, if not in tank why not damage, there is no need for a supercarrier logistic ship, the bonus does not stack up when it can't use triage modules.

Please fix it and some new shading would be nice too.

NG
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#25 - 2012-07-25 15:53:34 UTC
The biggest problem with a Pantheon Nidhoggur setup is the lack of energy transfer.

Nidhoggur suffers from pretty serious capacitor issues at full on repair, even with a full rack of Cap Rechargers and CCC rigs.

It definitely needs some attention on that front.

Where I am.

Nate Gordo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-08-02 11:01:20 UTC
Just getting it bumping again will CCP or a DEV doing something about this, its not a very fair representation of the game if most carrier and supercarriers are of Amarr or Gallente origin.

NG
Implying Implications
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-08-02 13:21:58 UTC
I got myself a Nidhoggur recently but the most annoying thing about it is the lack of powergrid (I'd like to be able to fit as many reps on it as an Archon though I've not yet come across a situation where I felt the need to do that). I personally think the 5% rep bonus/level is quite good howeverI know almost nothing about this game so I'm probably completely wrong. Cool

The rep bonus for the Hel doesn't make sense! What?
Kitt JT
True North.
#28 - 2012-08-02 16:18:24 UTC
I think they're ballanced just fine tbh. Minmatar design philosophy centres around fast ships, with a weak tank. Thats exactly what the hel and nid are. But they have a rep bonus in as a benefit.

Its the same reason why minnie cruisers are generally better than caldari or amarr cruisers, amarr battleships lend themselves to large fleets, and why gallente suck at skirmishing.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-08-02 17:05:02 UTC
Implying Implications wrote:
I got myself a Nidhoggur recently but the most annoying thing about it is the lack of powergrid (I'd like to be able to fit as many reps on it as an Archon though I've not yet come across a situation where I felt the need to do that). I personally think the 5% rep bonus/level is quite good howeverI know almost nothing about this game so I'm probably completely wrong. Cool

The rep bonus for the Hel doesn't make sense! What?

The problem is the archon can match the nid's repping power thanks to the archon having enough grid to fit an extra RR.
Nate Gordo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-08-03 11:31:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Nate Gordo
Kitt JT wrote:
I think they're ballanced just fine tbh. Minmatar design philosophy centres around fast ships, with a weak tank. Thats exactly what the hel and nid are. But they have a rep bonus in as a benefit.

Its the same reason why minnie cruisers are generally better than caldari or amarr cruisers, amarr battleships lend themselves to large fleets, and why gallente suck at skirmishing.


That may be true with smaller vessels, but the speed difference is irrelvant when it comes down to capital ships. If a Battleship is shooting you whether you are going 70m/s Nyx or 80m/s Hel isnt really gonna come into it not when your sig is the size of a moon.

The Hel's bonus is utterly pointless, and as mentioned the Nid cant rep as well as a Archon even tho it is supposed to be able to.

NG
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#31 - 2012-08-03 13:17:31 UTC
Here is how I think the Nidhoggur needs to be fixed;

1) 7.5% reduction in cycle time and activation cost of Capital Shield Transporter and Capital Remote Armour Repairer per Level.
2) 7.5% bonus to Capital Armour Repairer and Capital Shield Booster effectiveness per level.


Reasoning for this;
1) Cycle time/cap reduction means that it will be more effective out of triage while maintaining the same rep amount (Faster Cycle is more effective on sub caps with limited buffer).
2) Brings the tank roughly on par with the Archon in triage, primarily because at the moment the Archon is the only really practical Triage carrier, and the Nidhoggurs bonuses suggest that it should be, primarily, a Triage platform, this would make it one.

Its powergrid can remain **** poor, this way it can only fit 2x Capital Remote Armour Repper, giving it about the same rep amount as an Archon (Due to the Bonus) just with greater cap efficiency.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#32 - 2012-08-22 16:35:21 UTC
Implying Implications wrote:
I got myself a Nidhoggur recently but the most annoying thing about it is the lack of powergrid (I'd like to be able to fit as many reps on it as an Archon though I've not yet come across a situation where I felt the need to do that). I personally think the 5% rep bonus/level is quite good howeverI know almost nothing about this game so I'm probably completely wrong. Cool

The rep bonus for the Hel doesn't make sense! What?


Minnie ships always lack of PG. They offset this ugly drawback with high alpha and quick speed.

Too bad when the devs copy pasted a Stabber philosophy on Minnie caps and subpercaps they just forgot that there's no high alpha nor quick speed at these sizes, only the drawback.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#33 - 2012-08-22 17:05:54 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Face it guys, Duct tape and capitals just doesnt go well together.


as a capital itd have a damn lot of duct tape holding it together... have u ever tried to break apart a wad of screwwed up blac duct tape before? its actually annoyingly hard!
Nate Gordo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-09-26 18:13:54 UTC
CCP with the winter expansion coming it would be a good time to sort out the Minmatar capitals to actually make them remotely comparable with the other race ships, the speed tactics commonly used by minnie ships dont apply to capitals.

Isn't it time of a RoF bonses fighters and fighter bombers for the Hel and some more PG for the Nidhoggur so it can actally rep better than the Archon.

NG
iskflakes
#35 - 2012-09-26 19:00:19 UTC
The minmatar capitals do need some love. I think all capitals do. A thorough price vs power capital rebalance is more desperately needed than a new destroyer if you ask me. Capitals do not interact well with subcaps at present, because a capital blob will always be unkillable. However, individual capitals are too weak considering their cost, so some kind of mechanics change is needed.

-

Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#36 - 2012-09-26 19:14:12 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
The minmatar capitals do need some love. I think all capitals do. A thorough price vs power capital rebalance is more desperately needed than a new destroyer if you ask me. Capitals do not interact well with subcaps at present, because a capital blob will always be unkillable. However, individual capitals are too weak considering their cost, so some kind of mechanics change is needed.


Price should not be a balance point. If they need a change, then change them, but do not balance based on ISK.
iskflakes
#37 - 2012-09-26 21:22:55 UTC
Paikis wrote:

Price should not be a balance point. If they need a change, then change them, but do not balance based on ISK.


Yeah I agree. A 1 million ISK ship that somebody spent 5 minutes earning the ISK for should be equally good as a 100 billion ISK ship that somebody spent a year working towards.

-

Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#38 - 2012-09-26 22:09:59 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
Paikis wrote:

Price should not be a balance point. If they need a change, then change them, but do not balance based on ISK.


Yeah I agree. A 1 million ISK ship that somebody spent 5 minutes earning the ISK for should be equally good as a 100 billion ISK ship that somebody spent a year working towards.


That's a very nice strawman you've got there.
iskflakes
#39 - 2012-09-26 22:43:37 UTC
Paikis wrote:
That's a very nice strawman you've got there.


Really?

Paikis wrote:
Price should not be a balance point.

and,
Paikis wrote:
do not balance based on ISK.


In what way did I misrepresent your position?

Bringing the discussion back on topic, and to rephrase my original point: The nid costs the same as an archon, but is significantly weaker. So the power/price statistic should be equalized across all carriers, supers and dreads.

-

Furry Commander
Furry Armada
#40 - 2012-09-26 22:49:37 UTC
Paikis wrote:
iskflakes wrote:
Paikis wrote:

Price should not be a balance point. If they need a change, then change them, but do not balance based on ISK.


Yeah I agree. A 1 million ISK ship that somebody spent 5 minutes earning the ISK for should be equally good as a 100 billion ISK ship that somebody spent a year working towards.


That's a very nice strawman you've got there.


I lol'd

I love the nag, and i am getting into a nid soon, i would definitely like to see them improved in comparisson toother cap ships, but I agree that all cap ships need to be something other than sov warfare blobs or ratting aids. capital class integration into skirmish style warfare sounds to fun not to try for
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