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Hulk Nerf went too far
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Jazlina
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-08-21 18:10:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jazlina
I know there are a lot of different opinions about this, but the changes that I have seen are not good and in the end I feel I came out the loser by far.

I own a Hulk and have been using it for a while. With the changes the only thing that lets the hulk stand out is having 3 strip miners. Thats it. In every respect the mack or sciff are better now. Be it tank, speed, cargo hold etc...

Before the patch I had a hold of 13.5km3, now my hold is 8.5... Cargo expanders no longer work on ore cargo holds, only general cargo. This means I have to make 33% more trips back to base than I did before which in my reckoning is a net LOSS in isk/hour than before.

On top of this, I apparantly am not the only one to think so. In the markets the value of a hulk is plummeting and the value of the mack and skiff is skyrocketing. As of today the Mack is selling for more than the hulk in amarr space and the skiff is very close. The hulk is selling for about 30% less than it was pre-patch.

Can anyone else justify these changes? I feel like I was just mugged and then told it was all for my good....
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-08-21 18:15:55 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Gizan wrote:
I want my damn cargo space back so i can put more then 9 freaking crystals inside its cargo! having to warp back to station while jetcan mining to swap crystals is BS...


The hulk is a fleet ship. Work in a fleet of change ship. How damn hard is it to understand?



Quoting myself cuz fitting.
Equus
The New Federation
Shadow Ultimatum
#3 - 2012-08-21 18:18:35 UTC
When will people stop with this BS, the hulk is fine, they gave ships a role now. You want to mine by yourself and run to a station when your hold is full? Use a Mack. You want to mine in a fleet, especially an Orca boosted fleet with people/alts to haul ore? Hulk is still king.

Hulk = max yield.
Mack = max ore bay.
Skiff = max tankage.

You have to make a choice on what ship is best for your given situation, there is no longer one exhumer to rule them all.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-08-21 18:19:55 UTC
The purpose of the change was to make all mining ships good at something. From what you describe it seems to be a huge success. The problem seems to be, that the Hulk isn't the best at everything anymore and you're having trouble adjusting to this new reality. It's ok to fly other ships, if you think they're better at what you want to do. You just need to ask yourself what it is, that you value the most in your mining ship. Make that choice and what ship to use will become obvious.
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#5 - 2012-08-21 18:26:52 UTC
Jazlina wrote:
Same invalid complaints as numerous other threads.


The exhumers and barges are balanced. Each has a niche and role to fill. Just because the HULK is no longer king of the hill, lots of folk who can't adapt seem to be crying. These changes were made public long enough to allow miners to plan ahead, build up their new fleets as needed, and carry on smartly.

Obviously not everyone was able to adhere to the 'smartly' part. The short bus is coming and will pick you up eventually.
Malsavias Toralen
lolpercorp
#6 - 2012-08-21 18:55:06 UTC
Actually with my new 3 retriever set up i'm pulling in 3 times the ISK I was with hulks.

The hulks bonus is yield 25% more at max level.

But if you look at the other barges they all get a bonus to mining laser yield to make it near equive to the hulk.

So I went and traded in that pathetic 8k ore bay for a 25,700 m3 ore bay and disposable retrievers. No worry about gankers in the cheap flying jetcans and I only lost very tiny bit of yield since I don't need to worry about tanking my 10 mill isk ships throw 3 MLU II's and the hulk no longer has a profitable bonus.
Din Chao
#7 - 2012-08-21 19:00:43 UTC
Feel lucky. You should see what they did to my Tormentor!
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-08-21 19:03:39 UTC
Malsavias Toralen wrote:
Actually with my new 3 retriever set up i'm pulling in 3 times the ISK I was with hulks.

The hulks bonus is yield 25% more at max level.

But if you look at the other barges they all get a bonus to mining laser yield to make it near equive to the hulk.

So I went and traded in that pathetic 8k ore bay for a 25,700 m3 ore bay and disposable retrievers. No worry about gankers in the cheap flying jetcans and I only lost very tiny bit of yield since I don't need to worry about tanking my 10 mill isk ships throw 3 MLU II's and the hulk no longer has a profitable bonus.


It does have a worthwhile bonus IF you use it in it's intended role. In a fleet op with hauler support, it's still king of yield.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#9 - 2012-08-21 19:06:37 UTC
I'm totally in favor of people fitting up no tank max yield hulks. They either get ganked or they drive the price of minerals down. Either way I win.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Malsavias Toralen
lolpercorp
#10 - 2012-08-21 19:16:50 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Malsavias Toralen wrote:
Actually with my new 3 retriever set up i'm pulling in 3 times the ISK I was with hulks.

The hulks bonus is yield 25% more at max level.

But if you look at the other barges they all get a bonus to mining laser yield to make it near equive to the hulk.

So I went and traded in that pathetic 8k ore bay for a 25,700 m3 ore bay and disposable retrievers. No worry about gankers in the cheap flying jetcans and I only lost very tiny bit of yield since I don't need to worry about tanking my 10 mill isk ships throw 3 MLU II's and the hulk no longer has a profitable bonus.


It does have a worthwhile bonus IF you use it in it's intended role. In a fleet op with hauler support, it's still king of yield.


It is IF it can be decently defended, so it can fit 2 MLU II's if not it has to be tanked or you risk losing a 200 million ISK ship. But with the hassle of getting a fleet op together when I can take my three accounts load up three retrievers with 3 MLU II"s and only lose 2% yield compared to the tanked hulk, which is the easier, simpler and faster option?
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#11 - 2012-08-21 20:10:26 UTC
I tried out the new t1 barges and I still say that the hulk is fine. Now it is not a SOLO miner. If you are used using it as such and are still using it that way, you are doing it wrong.

Hulk is best used with orca support (boosting and ore hold) hell, it is still best if you have a hauler going back and forth. But when a barge is by itself, or has no hauler supporting the op, the hulk is not the best choice.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#12 - 2012-08-21 20:12:58 UTC
Din Chao wrote:
Feel lucky. You should see what they did to my Tormentor!


Have you seen what the plan to do to the inquisitor? My amarr missile frigs will be a turret logi!
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-08-21 20:21:01 UTC
Malsavias Toralen wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Malsavias Toralen wrote:
Actually with my new 3 retriever set up i'm pulling in 3 times the ISK I was with hulks.

The hulks bonus is yield 25% more at max level.

But if you look at the other barges they all get a bonus to mining laser yield to make it near equive to the hulk.

So I went and traded in that pathetic 8k ore bay for a 25,700 m3 ore bay and disposable retrievers. No worry about gankers in the cheap flying jetcans and I only lost very tiny bit of yield since I don't need to worry about tanking my 10 mill isk ships throw 3 MLU II's and the hulk no longer has a profitable bonus.


It does have a worthwhile bonus IF you use it in it's intended role. In a fleet op with hauler support, it's still king of yield.


It is IF it can be decently defended, so it can fit 2 MLU II's if not it has to be tanked or you risk losing a 200 million ISK ship. But with the hassle of getting a fleet op together when I can take my three accounts load up three retrievers with 3 MLU II"s and only lose 2% yield compared to the tanked hulk, which is the easier, simpler and faster option?


So the hulk need to be tanked but not the retriever? Why?
Malsavias Toralen
lolpercorp
#14 - 2012-08-21 20:37:22 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Malsavias Toralen wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Malsavias Toralen wrote:
Actually with my new 3 retriever set up i'm pulling in 3 times the ISK I was with hulks.

The hulks bonus is yield 25% more at max level.

But if you look at the other barges they all get a bonus to mining laser yield to make it near equive to the hulk.

So I went and traded in that pathetic 8k ore bay for a 25,700 m3 ore bay and disposable retrievers. No worry about gankers in the cheap flying jetcans and I only lost very tiny bit of yield since I don't need to worry about tanking my 10 mill isk ships throw 3 MLU II's and the hulk no longer has a profitable bonus.


It does have a worthwhile bonus IF you use it in it's intended role. In a fleet op with hauler support, it's still king of yield.


It is IF it can be decently defended, so it can fit 2 MLU II's if not it has to be tanked or you risk losing a 200 million ISK ship. But with the hassle of getting a fleet op together when I can take my three accounts load up three retrievers with 3 MLU II"s and only lose 2% yield compared to the tanked hulk, which is the easier, simpler and faster option?


So the hulk need to be tanked but not the retriever? Why?



Because the hulk is still 200 mill in Jita. The retriever is 19 mill. THAT is why the hulk still needs to be tanked and the retriever doesn't. Lose a hulk it's a hefty whack top the wallet, lose a retriever "Hey I just made enough for 3 retrievers in the last hour.
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Incorruptibles
#15 - 2012-08-21 21:34:03 UTC
Oh look. More Hulk tears.

Seriously though, every time something gets changed/nerfed there are people whining. Your Hulk isn't the mining 'I-win' button anymore. Deal with it.

Someone.
Warpshade
Warped Industries
#16 - 2012-08-21 22:14:08 UTC
Hulk changes =
Buffed default ore capacity
Buffed Tank
Still the best ship for yield

Yup that got nerfed alrightRoll

The only nerf it received was to it reputation as the only viable T2 Ore mining vessel.
If the other vessel's are now better suited to your playstyle, simple sell your hulk, and buy a Mack/Skiff...Profit???
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#17 - 2012-08-21 22:14:43 UTC
give me all your stuff and isk.. you are too whiny and dumb to play eve.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Tassian Marrix
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-08-22 03:15:53 UTC
At this point i assume all threads about how the hulk was nerfed are just troll threads. Ugh
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-08-22 05:35:56 UTC
Warpshade wrote:
Hulk changes =
Buffed default ore capacity
Buffed Tank
Still the best ship for yield

Yup that got nerfed alrightRoll

The only nerf it received was to it reputation as the only viable T2 Ore mining vessel.
If the other vessel's are now better suited to your playstyle, simple sell your hulk, and buy a Mack/Skiff...Profit???


They nerfed stupidity power on it tho. You need a much higher level of stupid now to think it's a good idea to fit a hulk with cargo expanders and cargo rigs.
Herr Hammer Draken
#20 - 2012-08-22 06:11:22 UTC
Jazlina wrote:
I know there are a lot of different opinions about this, but the changes that I have seen are not good and in the end I feel I came out the loser by far.

I own a Hulk and have been using it for a while. With the changes the only thing that lets the hulk stand out is having 3 strip miners. Thats it. In every respect the mack or sciff are better now. Be it tank, speed, cargo hold etc...

Before the patch I had a hold of 13.5km3, now my hold is 8.5... Cargo expanders no longer work on ore cargo holds, only general cargo. This means I have to make 33% more trips back to base than I did before which in my reckoning is a net LOSS in isk/hour than before.

On top of this, I apparantly am not the only one to think so. In the markets the value of a hulk is plummeting and the value of the mack and skiff is skyrocketing. As of today the Mack is selling for more than the hulk in amarr space and the skiff is very close. The hulk is selling for about 30% less than it was pre-patch.

Can anyone else justify these changes? I feel like I was just mugged and then told it was all for my good....


Well if you want an ore hold then get a mack. Much larger ore hold around 35km3 than what you used to have at13.5km3.
And to top it off you can put a much larger tank on your new Mack than what you had on your Hulk and still have the huge ore bay.
You will mine about 5% slower than a hulk but the large ore hold and fewer trips will more than offset that.

Quit being fixated on the hulk and adapt. You have a choice that is much better for your use than the hulk is.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
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