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Serious Newbie Question - Does Eve Really Want New Players?

First post
Author
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-08-21 13:27:38 UTC
Christy D Floyd wrote:
Drew Solaert wrote:
If you want to pvp, just fit up a cheap frig and have at it, you don't need a **** ton of SP (despite what people tell you)


This cracks me up everytime someone writes this. The only players your going to have a fair fight against is other players with the same low SP you have.


Cracks me up every time someone writes he wants a fair fight, no one is going to fight you unless the odds are in their favor.

No matter if you have 1 or 100M SP, you never know what you are going to be fighting, so you better bring as many friends as you like to fly with.

1. Having the advantage of numbers helps a lot if you are a noob.
2. It's fun to play with other people and just as important for new players, you have someone to help you with the game.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.

Syler Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
#82 - 2012-08-21 13:30:57 UTC
"Does Eve want new players?"

Yes and no. Eve wants new players that can adapt to a harsh style of playing, one that has patience and a disregard for pure safety. Eve does not want new players that fit into the norm of other MMOs, where things are easy and the path is guided. Where risk is a choice..
Sakura Kasenumi
Danish Vikings
#83 - 2012-08-21 13:39:43 UTC
Albert Spear wrote:
I am almost new to Eve, having opened my first account 8 weeks ago. Having played daily during that time. I have come to recognize that I have little or no chance to actively play for at least 6 more months. .



That is the dumbest thing ive seen this week.

Frigates are a VITAL part of fleets, the frigate changes make tehm even better, as fleet and solo ships. If you are talking pvp that is of course. If you ARE talking about pvp, you can be ready to pvp and make a difference in your first day online. It may take a couple of days to be ready to solo pvp but you can do it just fine.

If you are talking pve, then you can be in a capable pve BC inside 2 weeks, often before you even have the standings to do the missions requiring a BC.

If you are talking mining, you can get into a mining barge easier than ever.

If you are talking market you can be skilled for it in a matter of days.


If you think you should be able to jump into a BC and pvp on day three in Eve, then this game is most certainly not for you.

dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#84 - 2012-08-21 13:53:36 UTC  |  Edited by: dexington
Sakura Kasenumi wrote:

That is the dumbest thing ive seen this week.

Frigates are a VITAL part of fleets, the frigate changes make tehm even better, as fleet and solo ships. If you are talking pvp that is of course. If you ARE talking about pvp, you can be ready to pvp and make a difference in your first day online. It may take a couple of days to be ready to solo pvp but you can do it just fine.


That is the dumbest thing ive seen this week.

Someone with in-game experience can create a new character, and with little to no training be ready be ready to pvp. If you never played eve before getting into pvp after 6 weeks seems like an impossible task, and if you are in a hi-sec pve corp it's not going to be fun to loose you ship over and over.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.

Idris Helion
Doomheim
#85 - 2012-08-21 14:22:10 UTC
Sakura Kasenumi wrote:
Albert Spear wrote:
I am almost new to Eve, having opened my first account 8 weeks ago. Having played daily during that time. I have come to recognize that I have little or no chance to actively play for at least 6 more months. .



That is the dumbest thing ive seen this week.

Frigates are a VITAL part of fleets, the frigate changes make tehm even better, as fleet and solo ships. If you are talking pvp that is of course. If you ARE talking about pvp, you can be ready to pvp and make a difference in your first day online. It may take a couple of days to be ready to solo pvp but you can do it just fine.

If you are talking pve, then you can be in a capable pve BC inside 2 weeks, often before you even have the standings to do the missions requiring a BC.

If you are talking mining, you can get into a mining barge easier than ever.

If you are talking market you can be skilled for it in a matter of days.


If you think you should be able to jump into a BC and pvp on day three in Eve, then this game is most certainly not for you.



I'm going to dissent from the "frigates are vital" point. If you're rocking a frigate in a 1 week character, you're going to die immediately in any serious engagement, because chances are that your opponents are probably flying T2 cruisers or BC's against you. If you're in a fleet, you're cannon-fodder (the polite term is "tackler"). A noob char is worthless in PVP, and everyone knows it. They're at best a speedbump to slow down an opponent. Great for your fleet; not so fun for the hapless noob who wanted to play space-war.

That's one of the perils of having a game with a lot of long-time, high-SP players. No one wants to risk their expensive ships, fittings, and implants in anything like a fair fight. So combat either becomes a massive fleet-blob affair out in null, or griefers ganking noobs and miners in high. Lowsec is a PVP desert for a reason -- all the PVP'ers claim to want to fight, but the perma-camped gates into lowsec give lie to that claim. If you want more people in lowsec, clear the gates and let people travel. People would flow into lowsec in greater numbers and the PVP opportunities would increase. The fact that this never happens speaks volumes.

What most of you guys don't seem to understand is that dying is not fun for new players. And that's really all a new char can do in PVP: die. A lot. And that BS about opponents imparting wisdom during a fight is crap as well -- most will blow up your ship, kill your pod, and then tell you to HTFU while they warp off laughing. If a clueless noob somehow manages to survive the perma-camped gates into lowsec, they'll be easy meat for roamers looking for an easy killmail.

I always point noobs who want to PVP to EVE University. It's really a prerequisite for learning the tricks of PVP while still having fun. It's just too bad that more corps don't follow EVE Uni's philosophy towards noobs.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#86 - 2012-08-21 14:28:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Idris Helion wrote:


I'm going to dissent from the "frigates are vital" point. If you're rocking a frigate in a 1 week character, you're going to die immediately in any serious engagement, because chances are that your opponents are probably flying T2 cruisers or BC's against you. If you're in a fleet, you're cannon-fodder (the polite term is "tackler"). A noob char is worthless in PVP, and everyone knows it. They're at best a speedbump to slow down an opponent. Great for your fleet; not so fun for the hapless noob who wanted to play space-war.


Which is EXACTLY why it's good.

There is a right type of player of eve and a wrong type.

The right type understands that his "ship" is a pawn, a massive chess piece to be spent for the greater good of THE GROUP.

The Wrong type wants to be some Space Hero, can't stand the loss of his ship "because in the movies the space hero never dies" and could care less about the success of the group, hell, he probably isn't IN a group of space fighting people.

Goons have it right, bring in noobs, through them in the deep end, show them that ships mean NOTHING and let them enjoy the game.


Quote:

That's one of the perils of having a game with a lot of long-time, high-SP players. No one wants to risk their expensive ships, fittings, and implants in anything like a fair fight. So combat either becomes a massive fleet-blob affair out in null, or griefers ganking noobs and miners in high. Lowsec is a PVP desert for a reason -- all the PVP'ers claim to want to fight, but the perma-camped gates into lowsec give lie to that claim. If you want more people in lowsec, clear the gates and let people travel. People would flow into lowsec in greater numbers and the PVP opportunities would increase. The fact that this never happens speaks volumes.

What most of you guys don't seem to understand is that dying is not fun for new players. And that's really all a new char can do in PVP: die. A lot. And that BS about opponents imparting wisdom during a fight is crap as well -- most will blow up your ship, kill your pod, and then tell you to HTFU while they warp off laughing. If a clueless noob somehow manages to survive the perma-camped gates into lowsec, they'll be easy meat for roamers looking for an easy killmail.

I always point noobs who want to PVP to EVE University. It's really a prerequisite for learning the tricks of PVP while still having fun. It's just too bad that more corps don't follow EVE Uni's philosophy towards noobs.


EVe University is great, yes, I appreciate their work, but EVE is different and special, and it simply isn't our concern that "noobs" don't like dying. "Dying" is part of the game that you have to get used to in order to be successful.
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#87 - 2012-08-21 14:46:57 UTC
OP, of course EvE wants to new players, what would we feed our vets otherwise? Pirate

I'm an American, English is my second language...

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#88 - 2012-08-21 14:46:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Gather your noobs, put them in noobships, frigates, destroyers whatever they can fly, go out in force and hunt down the people who wardecced you. You'll explode stuff, get exploded, and watch your enemies think wtf?, the satisfaction of killing something that costs a lot more that what you're flying is well worth it.

Goons say it best, they destroyed an entire powerbloc with some friends & this philosophy.

Getting exploded is part of the Eve experience, it's part and parcel of the whole ethos of the game, and it doesn't care if you're a PvE player or not (I won't use the word carebear, as far as I'm concerned a carebear is someone who refuses to adapt including PvP players.)

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
Quantum Cafe
#89 - 2012-08-21 14:56:37 UTC  |  Edited by: BoBoZoBo
The only problem here is your perspective and commitment. I bring new players into the game all the time and it comes down to personality, not any issues with the game. Some can take it, some should be playing something... easier and more accomodating.

So to answer your question...
YES - EVE WANTS NEW PLAYERS!
But we want new EVE-TYPE PLAYERS.

Not the kids these days who can't take stress, don't do basic math, won't think outside the box and ***** about getting bullied and who think their poop is gold roses and wonder why no one treats them special.

We want people with balls... people who take risks, have high goals, who like being outgunned, fight against terrible odds and who laugh at the thought of piloting a burning spaceship screaming though space-time without the need to whine about it on the forums.

So yes, we want PLAYERS, not b!tches.
It is, after all a game, you want comfort and someone to hold your hand... go work for Corporate America.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite

Josef Djugashvilis
#90 - 2012-08-21 14:59:12 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
YES - EVE WANTS NEW PLAYERS!
But we ant new EVE PLAYERS.

Not the kids these days who can't take stress, don't do basic math, won't think outside the box and ***** about getting bullied and who think their poop is gold roses and wonder why no one treats them special.

We want people with balls... people who take risks, have high goals, fight against terrible odds and who laugh at the thought of piloting a burning spaceship screaming though space-time.

So yes, we want PLAYERS, not b!tches.


Would you like the Eve famale players to unsub?Smile

This is not a signature.

Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#91 - 2012-08-21 15:00:10 UTC
I wouldn't want to get wardecced in my first 8 weeks either. That's not a good way to learn the game in general, or PVP either.

OP, I'd just leave the corp for the duration of the wardec. Your corp mates should understand. If they don't, that's their problem, not yours. Mine in high sec, do your own thing, learn the ropes, have fun exploring EVE. High sec isn't that dangerous other than wardecs and the occasional mining ship ganker. When the wardec is done, you can rejoin the corp, or join a different corp, or continue solo.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
Quantum Cafe
#92 - 2012-08-21 15:03:10 UTC  |  Edited by: BoBoZoBo
NOOOOO, that is an unfair interpretation of my post. I love giiiiiiiirls.
Mmmmmmmm... giiiirrrrlllllsssssss.

Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
BoBoZoBo wrote:
The only problem here is your perspective and commitment. I bring new players into the game all the time and it comes down to personality, not any issues with the game. Some can take it, some should be playing something... easier and more accomodating.

So to answer your question...
YES - EVE WANTS NEW PLAYERS!
But we want new EVE-TYPE PLAYERS.

Not the kids these days who can't take stress, don't do basic math, won't think outside the box and ***** about getting bullied and who think their poop is gold roses and wonder why no one treats them special.

We want people with balls... people who take risks, have high goals, who like being outgunned, fight against terrible odds and who laugh at the thought of piloting a burning spaceship screaming though space-time without the need to whine about it on the forums.

So yes, we want PLAYERS, not b!tches.
It is, after all a game, you want comfort and someone to hold your hand... go work for Corporate America.


Would you like the Eve famale players to unsub?Smile

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#93 - 2012-08-21 15:05:55 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
I wouldn't want to get wardecced in my first 8 weeks either. That's not a good way to learn the game in general, or PVP either.

OP, I'd just leave the corp for the duration of the wardec. Your corp mates should understand. If they don't, that's their problem, not yours. Mine in high sec, do your own thing, learn the ropes, have fun exploring EVE. High sec isn't that dangerous other than wardecs and the occasional mining ship ganker. When the wardec is done, you can rejoin the corp, or join a different corp, or continue solo.


He's the CEO, kinda looks bad if he leaves and then comes back once the dec is over.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#94 - 2012-08-21 15:06:15 UTC
You could simply join an NPC corp until you feel comfortable with what direction you want to take in eve.
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
#95 - 2012-08-21 15:10:01 UTC
I love the way this discussion is still ongoing despite the fact the OP has probably stopped playing EVE.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli

Sarton Wells
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-08-21 15:17:59 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
And that BS about opponents imparting wisdom during a fight is crap as well -- most will blow up your ship, kill your pod, and then tell you to HTFU while they warp off laughing. If a clueless noob somehow manages to survive the perma-camped gates into lowsec, they'll be easy meat for roamers looking for an easy killmail.

I always point noobs who want to PVP to EVE University. It's really a prerequisite for learning the tricks of PVP while still having fun. It's just too bad that more corps don't follow EVE Uni's philosophy towards noobs.


While eve university is a good place to learn there's not really much that you can't learn from someplace else. Personally I've learned how to survive gate camps and ganks/baits/roams in low sec through trial and error and various sites. Sure with eve uni it would've been quicker but you don't have to graduate from there to be able to enjoy the game.
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2012-08-21 15:18:41 UTC
I just want to rebut those who say you must "be smart enough" to "grasp EvE's complexity". I think of that equation very differently with a different attitude: you don't have to be smart, but you can't be stupid.

All the really complicated stuff that only smart people can fathom has already been figured out and blogged on. Just go read that stuff. Failure to do that, well, it's being stupid. <-- newbie pro tip ...
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#98 - 2012-08-21 15:54:11 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
The only problem here is your perspective and commitment. I bring new players into the game all the time and it comes down to personality, not any issues with the game. Some can take it, some should be playing something... easier and more accomodating.

So to answer your question...
YES - EVE WANTS NEW PLAYERS!
But we want new EVE-TYPE PLAYERS.

Not the kids these days who can't take stress, don't do basic math, won't think outside the box and ***** about getting bullied and who think their poop is gold roses and wonder why no one treats them special.

We want people with balls... people who take risks, have high goals, who like being outgunned, fight against terrible odds and who laugh at the thought of piloting a burning spaceship screaming though space-time without the need to whine about it on the forums.

So yes, we want PLAYERS, not b!tches.
It is, after all a game, you want comfort and someone to hold your hand... go work for Corporate America.


damn it ccp, give me more like buttons for posts like these. Damn near about to log on alts JUST TO LIKE THIS!

:)
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#99 - 2012-08-21 15:58:54 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
It's just too bad that more corps don't follow EVE Uni's philosophy towards noobs.
The problem there is that you cant tell for certain if that newbie who wants to join is a newbie, or an alt who'd just waiting for the opportunity to steal/awox/whatever.

We've spent eight years now working out how to deal with these, and unfortunately, none of the solutions are that simple.


Sarton Wells wrote:
While eve university is a good place to learn there's not really much that you can't learn from someplace else. Personally I've learned how to survive gate camps and ganks/baits/roams in low sec through trial and error and various sites. Sure with eve uni it would've been quicker but you don't have to graduate from there to be able to enjoy the game.
I entirely agree. It depends however if you have (almost) unlimited patience, and someone to help out and point you in the right direction. What we provide in E-UNI is a bit of a 'leg up', some other people to learn with/from, and an open community, along with the years of experience, guides, classes and other stuff which is all public.

And, of course, once a member leaves, they retain access to the vast majority of the resources.
Othran
Route One
#100 - 2012-08-21 16:08:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Idris Helion wrote:
It's just too bad that more corps don't follow EVE Uni's philosophy towards noobs.
And, of course, once a member leaves, they retain access to the vast majority of the resources.


The problem with a lot of your members is that they never leave, nor do they go on to teach/guide/FC within Eve-Uni.

So why are they still there - in some cases years from when they were allegedly noobs?

You'd have a lot more credibility if you forced some of your members to "graduate" to another corp after a maximum of one year.