These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Heavy Missile Tactics
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
khall Aa'Blauth
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-08-20 08:21:18 UTC
Hi!

I've read something about this somewhere in the forum, but it was inside a long post, so I've not been successful rediscovering it in my searches. The question from me ( the noob ) is this:

I've build a Drake that I've used for PVE as a alternative to the trading I mainly do. This Drake has a massive shieldtank, and seven heavy missile launchers. ( Build is equal to the basic PVE suggested build on uniwiki for the Drake.

I am not pleased with the dps I'm getting, and this is related to my use of the ship, not the weapons in them self. I know that there is a lot of factors that determine the damage output of a missile. ( shipsize and speed among others. ) Question is how to maximize the damage. To often my missile deals a 17.5 damage, but at times it is closer to 50. I've tried a lot of things to try to figure out what is successful and not. Kept my ship orbiting, kept it still, ran through all sorts of missiles etc. Thing is I don't get it. I can't find the tactic that gives the best dps. The result is that I up end in heated confrontations in deadspace where I grind the enemies shield almost down, but not quite, while in the end the fire from 5-6 enemies force me retreat. Don't remember the names of those pirateships but they've got bounties around 250.000 and the ships is tough nuts to crack.

If I'd dealt more missiles at 50 damage instead of 17 damage I'd won these engagements. What should I do? How to position my ship and such.

Any feedback is deeply appreciated
Myryanius
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-08-20 09:22:58 UTC
Any more info on the fitting of your drake?

Imo, the drake isnt a dps ship, its a comfort zone, the tank is far too huge and the dps compensates for this. If you have used all your slots for tank modules then ofc your dps is gonna be mega crap. Try using some ballistic control units and target painters. Also, you have a huge boost for kinetic missiles, which isnt ideal when some npcs have a good resistance against this.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#3 - 2012-08-20 09:34:24 UTC
F1

.
khall Aa'Blauth
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-08-20 10:08:09 UTC  |  Edited by: khall Aa'Blauth
it is set up like the Drake, Mission Basic on this page

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Drake

This is really a setup I took to get a starting point as I don't know everything yet about modules and such. Game is complicated, that's what draws me into it as well. Took this one as itt seemed a pretty safe start.

The fluctation between highest and lowest damage pr missile puzzles me. 17 - 50 is a lot. Can't eat through others tank as they get it faster than I tear it down due to the 17 damage hits being to many compared to the 50 damage.

Any feedback on both build and tactics is great news for me. Need to learn
Dan Carter Murray
#5 - 2012-08-20 10:36:40 UTC
khall Aa'Blauth wrote:
Hi!

I've read something about this somewhere in the forum, but it was inside a long post, so I've not been successful rediscovering it in my searches. The question from me ( the noob ) is this:

I've build a Drake that I've used for PVE as a alternative to the trading I mainly do. This Drake has a massive shieldtank, and seven heavy missile launchers. ( Build is equal to the basic PVE suggested build on uniwiki for the Drake.

I am not pleased with the dps I'm getting, and this is related to my use of the ship, not the weapons in them self. I know that there is a lot of factors that determine the damage output of a missile. ( shipsize and speed among others. ) Question is how to maximize the damage. To often my missile deals a 17.5 damage, but at times it is closer to 50. I've tried a lot of things to try to figure out what is successful and not. Kept my ship orbiting, kept it still, ran through all sorts of missiles etc. Thing is I don't get it. I can't find the tactic that gives the best dps. The result is that I up end in heated confrontations in deadspace where I grind the enemies shield almost down, but not quite, while in the end the fire from 5-6 enemies force me retreat. Don't remember the names of those pirateships but they've got bounties around 250.000 and the ships is tough nuts to crack.

If I'd dealt more missiles at 50 damage instead of 17 damage I'd won these engagements. What should I do? How to position my ship and such.

Any feedback is deeply appreciated


If you can afford implants, there are some which help with increasing dmg on smaller or faster moving targets.

Also, make sure you tank for the right inc dmg (eve-survival.org) so you don't have to warp out as soon (if at all)

Next, moving will help decrease your inc dmg when mwd is off.

Finally, use your drones to take out the frigs.

Question: are you using the drake for missions?

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
khall Aa'Blauth
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-08-20 10:50:06 UTC
yes. it is used for missions. still at lvl 1 missions. the trouble occur when I use the scanner and go to the anomalies. some of the ships in there is rather hard nuts to crack.
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-08-20 11:41:03 UTC
Since you say your a trader, I'd wager it's just a lack of combat skills at this point. With Malkuth launchers and only a pair fo T1 ballistic controls, if your using that exact fit you linked, it's not surprising that your damage is low. I'd be surprised if you break 150-175dps with drones out. That amount of damage just isn't enough to break the tanks of the larger rats as you've discovered. Training weapon upgrades to 4 to allow the use of T2 ballistic controls is a good start. If you post your character at http://eveboard.com/ it could help with skill suggestions. Barring that, take a look at the following pages.

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Missile_Launchers#Missile_Support_Skills
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Drones#Skills
EvK EvE
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-08-20 12:13:41 UTC
Expect some obvious things mentioned above - exchange one Power Relay to third BCU II, helps a bit.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#9 - 2012-08-20 14:49:19 UTC
250,000 means elite cruisers. And yes, they have nasty tanks for a low skill Drake to break.

Your easiest bet to throw just a bit more damage to break them is to put your drones on them. Alternatively, you could overheat your launchers right at the break point (requires you to train Thermodynamics).

Oh, and make sure your launchers are grouped. You'll have an easier time volleying them past peak recharge if you're firing all launchers together rather than separately.

As for the difference in damage you're seeing: it's all about NPC resists. Elite cruisers have about twice the resists as normal NPCs -- and so take about half the damage you're used to seeing.
Dennis Gregs
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-08-20 15:08:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Dennis Gregs
Thanks to this thread, I tried a Target Painter on my alt's Drake and my damage against frigs + cruisers went up noticeably. Might not be as required as it is for cruise missiles, but I desperately needed some slight additional damage to one shot frigs more consistently. Thanks for the heads up people.


Question: Would it be worth fitting more than 1 TP?
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-08-20 19:48:06 UTC
Dennis Gregs wrote:
Thanks to this thread, I tried a Target Painter on my alt's Drake and my damage against frigs + cruisers went up noticeably. Might not be as required as it is for cruise missiles, but I desperately needed some slight additional damage to one shot frigs more consistently. Thanks for the heads up people.


Question: Would it be worth fitting more than 1 TP?


not with heavies. iirc the sig size of npc cruisers is 140, your explosion radius is probably around 170 or so. one painter will blow the sig up to ~180, so the damage application should be close to 100%. for frigs, there are still drones.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#12 - 2012-08-21 00:23:28 UTC
khall Aa'Blauth wrote:
yes. it is used for missions. still at lvl 1 missions. the trouble occur when I use the scanner and go to the anomalies. some of the ships in there is rather hard nuts to crack.


Don't use heavy missiles for LvL1 and 2 missions. Put in some light launchers if you want to use your drake. The frigs move to fast and the heavies have a bigger explosion radius. Actually just use a cruiser. Defender missiles from the rats will also give you less damage, can't remember though if they are there in lvl1 missions.
khall Aa'Blauth
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-08-21 05:43:13 UTC  |  Edited by: khall Aa'Blauth
Zhilia Mann wrote:
250,000 means elite cruisers. And yes, they have nasty tanks for a low skill Drake to break.

Your easiest bet to throw just a bit more damage to break them is to put your drones on them. Alternatively, you could overheat your launchers right at the break point (requires you to train Thermodynamics).

Oh, and make sure your launchers are grouped. You'll have an easier time volleying them past peak recharge if you're firing all launchers together rather than separately.

As for the difference in damage you're seeing: it's all about NPC resists. Elite cruisers have about twice the resists as normal NPCs -- and so take about half the damage you're used to seeing.


peak recharge? Sorry, please explain. I didn't get it
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#14 - 2012-08-21 06:08:00 UTC
Shields (and capacitor) recharge, but not at a constant rate. The maximum, or peak recharge rate of shields is at around 30% shields left, and falls on both sides of that peak, rate being very slow near maximum shields (and capacitor). If you can't punch thru this maximum recharge, you will be unable to break the shield tank.

So when fighting a shield tanker and you are not super awesome Gallente, member of the supreme master race and ruler of the stars, top damage dealer and owner of an astounding moustache, you might need to overheat your weapons when your opponent's shield tank has approximately one third left in order to break it.

Same principle works with capacitor, if you are running a cap-boosted setup, time your module cycles so that the capacitor amount hangs somewhere around the peak recharge area.

.
khall Aa'Blauth
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-08-21 06:20:37 UTC
Roime wrote:
Shields (and capacitor) recharge, but not at a constant rate. The maximum, or peak recharge rate of shields is at around 30% shields left, and falls on both sides of that peak, rate being very slow near maximum shields (and capacitor). If you can't punch thru this maximum recharge, you will be unable to break the shield tank.

So when fighting a shield tanker and you are not super awesome Gallente, member of the supreme master race and ruler of the stars, top damage dealer and owner of an astounding moustache, you might need to overheat your weapons when your opponent's shield tank has approximately one third left in order to break it.

Same principle works with capacitor, if you are running a cap-boosted setup, time your module cycles so that the capacitor amount hangs somewhere around the peak recharge area.


COOL :) thx
Barrak
The Painted Ones
#16 - 2012-08-21 08:30:02 UTC
A Drake and it's weapon systems are way to large for T1 missions.

Personally you'd be better off in an Assault Frigate (at least L4) if you can fly one, if not then you should consider a Desroyer (not missiles) or a Caracal with Light Missiles.

These are your problems
A) Fire Slowly
B) Have a large signature explosion radius (which means it doesn't hit Frigates very well)
C) Has a slow explosion velocity (which means it doesn't hit frigates very well).
D) Weapon bonuses are not condusive to your targets ie... bonus to heavies.

If, for some strange reason, you are desperate to stay in the Drake then drop to rapid missile launchers. The fittings on this will be far nicer than those of your heavies so you should be able to add some Ballistic Control Units for extra DPS

Here is a (mostly) T1 fit as I am not sure on your skills:

[Drake, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Local Power Plant Manager: Reaction Shield Power Relay I
Local Power Plant Manager: Reaction Shield Power Relay I

Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field
Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I

Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Scourge Light Missile
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Scourge Light Missile
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Scourge Light Missile
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Scourge Light Missile
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Scourge Light Missile
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Scourge Light Missile
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Scourge Light Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I


Warrior I x5


No doubt this can be easily improved upon based on your skills. However, as stated above, using a BC in a L1 missions is likely to cause you more problems than solve, especially so if you lack skills.

Some things that you might want to switch out. Extender Rig for another Fuel Cache if incoming damage is easily managable and you want the extra range (light missiles are far shorter than heavies).

Two EM resists for mission specific.

The one benefit that the Drake may have for you is that it doesnt lose bonuses based on ammo type. ie... you can switch out easier.


This might be better, again, a basic fit that can be improved upon. The Caracal is designed to kite the rats.... just use 'keep at range'.... just dont expect to come back and salvage.

[Caracal, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field

Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Scourge Light Missile
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Scourge Light Missile
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Scourge Light Missile
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Scourge Light Missile
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher, Scourge Light Missile

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I

Hits out to 71k ish



Regards

Barrak
Chimpy B
The Philosophy Of Two
#17 - 2012-08-21 08:44:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Chimpy B
If you're doing level 1 and 2 mission you'll be fighting frigates mostly - the drake is designed to take down cruisers. Heavy missiles will do less damage to small targets like frigates, although there are ways around this, such as target painters and rigor rigs. Also the skill Guided Missile Precision.

I'd actually recommend a destroyer or an assault frigate for L1 missions, maybe even level 2s.

Drakes are absolutely perfect for L3 missions, though
khall Aa'Blauth
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-08-21 09:25:00 UTC
See some of the points put forward here. Great tips.

Guess I'll stay with the Drake, not because it is the most suited lvl1 missionship, but it will become better as I progress. The reason is simply that it takes so long to build the skills and experiance that I won't invest more skilltime towards a more proper lvl1 ship. My business skills needs honing as well.

Some great tips on alternative setups on the Drake here as well as tips on skills.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-08-23 01:35:50 UTC
For L1 missions you would actually be better off in something a little smaller.

If missiles are your thing the Kestrel would be excellent in L1 missions, as it has excellent range and does good damage to the Mission rats you will encounter.

hi: 4 Light Missile Launchers, scourge missiles
mid: 1 Small shield Booster
mid: 1-2 Capacitor Rechargers
lo: 2 ballistic control systems

Riggings are entirely optional (but u might need the +cpu rig)
rig: EM Reinforcer
rig: Cap Ctrl Ciircuit
rig: Ancil Current Router


If you start doing L2 missions then a Caracal would be another good choice and it uses the same weapons as the drake which is a nice plus, you can save your Drake for L3+ missions.